Fixing Tulsa

[cathyv]

We as a city need to look into getting rid of section 8 and government housing.  We simply cannot afford the problems that it creates.  They are far reaching.  The police can certainly confirm the crime incubation that is happening in areas with dense section 8 population.We have too many apartment complexes that are run down and accepting multiple section 8 tenants.  Because of this, our schools have declined citywide.  In turn, the young working middle class, with disposable income, have left the city.  Without their spending, our tax revenues will never recover enough to fund our city.
The people on the housing authority live in one of the few areas of tulsa without run down section 8 housing.  I too would love to help everyone in a bad situation, but it is imperative we return Tulsa to a family friendly town in order to survive.

[Breadburner]

We are doomed.....!!!!!

[waterboy]

Nah....just cut to the root problem. We need to outlaw low income people. Or mainstream them. Or just take the money saved from eliminating Section 8 housing and use it to buy them homes in the surrounding areas, thereby forcing young people with money BACK into the city.

Seriously, there is merit in the idea of destroying some of the local concentrations of hopelessness in the city, notably 61st & Peoria, 48th & Braden and Apache Manor and redeveloping them with a more heterogeneous population. Won't happen but it has merit.

[Ibanez]

Maybe we could set up some sort of camp to put all the section 8ers in.

Ohh...and make then wear yellow 8's on their clothing so we can easily identify them when they are outside the camps on work detail.

[Red Arrow]

Seriously, there is merit in the idea of destroying some of the local concentrations of hopelessness in the city, notably 61st & Peoria, 48th & Braden and Apache Manor and redeveloping them with a more heterogeneous population. Won't happen but it has merit.

Noble idea but isn't that in part how we got places like 61 & Peoria to be as they now are?  Pockets of poverty are obviously bad.  The best way I can think of to fix them is by education and jobs.  Some may need an attitude adjustment too.  As squeaky as my wallet is, I have always supported education.

[waterboy]

Its the concentration of multi-family that spelled doom for those areas Red. That came from the federal government trying to depopulate the inner city slums by offering subsidized housing. Financing was easier for developing those areas. That was noble of them but didn't work. We don't allow such concentrations anymore. It was during that period of time in Tulsa where we let builder/developers plan our growth. We can do better now. Stimulus funds could/should have been allocated to re-developing those areas.

[FOTD]

We as a city need to look into getting rid of section 8 and government housing.  We simply cannot afford the problems that it creates.  They are far reaching.  The police can certainly confirm the crime incubation that is happening in areas with dense section 8 population.We have too many apartment complexes that are run down and accepting multiple section 8 tenants.  Because of this, our schools have declined citywide.  In turn, the young working middle class, with disposable income, have left the city.  Without their spending, our tax revenues will never recover enough to fund our city.
The people on the housing authority live in one of the few areas of tulsa without run down section 8 housing.  I too would love to help everyone in a bad situation, but it is imperative we return Tulsa to a family friendly town in order to survive.

Burner, Tulsa is far from doom. But it's becoming more and more toxic all the time due to this baiter "can't". A new planted postie?

Listen "can't", that type thinking got us here in the first place. When I 244 was designed to cut North Tulsa off in the "60's" it was a purposeful attempt to "spread 'em out...". You know, divide and conquer.

Waterboy makes several good observations and the basis seems to be if a cost benefit analysis were to be done the end result would be offer those in poor shape a hand up and an opportunity to pay back the city for facilitating the de-concentration of high crime areas. "Seriously, there is merit in the idea of destroying some of the local concentrations of hopelessness in the city, notably 61st & Peoria, 48th & Braden and Apache Manor and redeveloping them with a more heterogeneous population. Won't happen but it has merit. " Why won't it happen? Because people like "can't" have no counter balance to to their thinking. No ideas for solution to an ongoing predicament. Round 'em up, run 'em off mentality does not sit well with the "do unto others" intelligencia.

Mean people suck. FOTD will shy away from your bias.

[shadows]

Some of the posters  should clean the ivy from the windows of their towers.

Like the dozing down the camps along the river to move the people into the section 8 housing where it only moved them down town living out of cars.   Many had jobs paying a substandard wage but who were self-sustaining in the very necessary things needed to ensure the life cycle.

To many residents of the ivy towers the proper solution would be require all housing to be row housing where the building line was the edge of the side walk with zero clearance between houses like is done in some of the eastern cities and England.

When we cite the lack of education as a reason for their disparity, those of the ivy tower's should draw back the ivy from the windows and see these people as human beings.  Even if there are no jobs available and they have diplomas, how long do you boil a diploma to make a pot of soup? 

Do the posters believe stimulus funding is the answer by just continuing to print unsecured money that foreign investors are using to buy our utilities is the answer to our unemployment problems?  By the transferring of our industries to off shore production, those countries seem to now have a problem with their unemployment.

We have only a short time to find a solution as the effect are now world wide and the section 8'ers are not the total problem.   

[YoungTulsan]

I think the idea of classifying human beings as "undesirable" is exactly how the problem began.  To get the poor folks "out of sight, out of mind", low income areas were built to be segregated from the rest of mainstream society.  Of course clustering all low income folks into ghettos creates an endless self perpetuating cycle of poverty.  For people born into an urban prison of poverty, escape isn't as easy as people not exposed to that cycle might think.

What does this guy propose after we bulldoze the section 8 housing?  Does he want them to all leave Tulsa and find another city?  This is the kind of thinking that has Katrina victims paranoid that the government blew up the levees to "clean up" New Orleans.

[Red Arrow]

When we cite the lack of education as a reason for their disparity, those of the ivy tower's should draw back the ivy from the windows and see these people as human beings.  Even if there are no jobs available and they have diplomas, how long do you boil a diploma to make a pot of soup? 

About 20 minutes on the boil.  After that the acids from the paper come out and ruin the soup.

Seriously, an education is enabling the miracle.  You can't win the lottery without playing.  Getting an education makes you more likely to get a decent job.  I agree, no guarantees.

Violin time:
My grandfather came to the USA with the shirt on his back about 1917 (and a couple of relatives that preceded him).  After a while in the coal mines of western PA and in West VA, he decided to get some education and learn English.  He became a (union) tool and die maker.  He was never rich dollar wise but didn't worry about where his next meal was coming from.  All 3 of his sons went to and graduated from college.  Being white was an advantage of sorts but being Polish was definitely not an advantage in the early 20th century.  I even ran into some adverse attitudes in the US Navy in the early 70s.
End violin.

[Red Arrow]

Are some of you proposing that the government provide individual family housing to the poor in say Southern Hills area? If so, can I get in on that deal?

[YoungTulsan]

Are some of you proposing that the government provide individual family housing to the poor in say Southern Hills area? If so, can I get in on that deal?

Oh yeah?

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/OK-Tulsa-London-Square.html

Go hang out at the 61st & Lewis QuikTrip from about midnight to 2AM

[Red Arrow]

Oh yeah?

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/OK-Tulsa-London-Square.html

Go hang out at the 61st & Lewis QuikTrip from about midnight to 2AM

OK, try a few miles away where all the rich people live.  How about between 101st and 111th around Knoxville?  That would be a nice place to live.

[YoungTulsan]

That would be a funny place to see a payday loans, laundromat, and prepaid wireless store open up.

[Red Arrow]

That would be a funny place to see a payday loans, laundromat, and prepaid wireless store open up.

Agreed.