Kaiser Foundation, other donors to fund Tulsa government review

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For the sake of the citizens who are unable to pay their electric bill lets not find ways that AEP can reduce cost of street lighting to the city.  As they are a franchise dealer to provide the electricity for the street lighting and residents they have a set return on their investment. If theirs sales falls below the profit granted then they will go to for double the amount to the corporation commission and be given one half as they expected as a rate increase.  It boils down to an increase on all electric rates paid by the rate payers and more profit for AEP.

ONG just did it.

[Conan71]

I'm glad to see it happen. And for someone else to pay for it. It does concern me that people don't seem to realize that government is an employer in the marketplace as well. One of our largest.

If you make drastic cuts in government operations in an effort to make it more efficient, you are in effect adding to the downward spiral of a bad economy by increasing unemployment. That has a negative effect on purchasing, real estate values etc. That's where we get the money to run government. Tax revenues are then decreased, perhaps more than any efficiency savings. 

The net value then of your efforts may in fact be counter productive. I don't think that should stop efforts to streamline government. I only question the timing. You trim your bushes during the growing season or very near the end of summer. Not in the winter.

Perhaps we should have never become that dependent on government in the first place and government could have contracted out varyious services to private firms instead of taking them onto their own payroll and thus making those people dependent on government. 

I do realize there are certain functions that only government can do with government employees, but I think it will be a real eye-opener to see how much administration, waste, and job dupication there is when profitability is not not a consideration.

What should we expect out of municipal government?

Roads
Police protection
Fire protection
Water/Sewage/Trash collection and in some areas they provide all the utility services
Building code enforcement

Probably one or two things I'm forgetting here.

How many engineers do we really need on city payroll?  How big an IT department, HR/payroll department, accounting, etc?  How many services could be out-sourced while giving more support to local business without the government assuming the fiscal liabilities of employment?

The reason our governemnt is running short on funds is we have become over-dependent on government to solve too many of our needs and problems. 

[Breadburner]

Sometimes they create far to many problems at an extreme expense on the taxpayer.......

[rwarn17588]

Perhaps we should have never become that dependent on government in the first place and government could have contracted out varyious services to private firms instead of taking them onto their own payroll and thus making those people dependent on government. 

I do realize there are certain functions that only government can do with government employees, but I think it will be a real eye-opener to see how much administration, waste, and job dupication there is when profitability is not not a consideration.

What should we expect out of municipal government?

Roads
Police protection
Fire protection
Water/Sewage/Trash collection and in some areas they provide all the utility services
Building code enforcement

Probably one or two things I'm forgetting here.

How many engineers do we really need on city payroll?  How big an IT department, HR/payroll department, accounting, etc?  How many services could be out-sourced while giving more support to local business without the government assuming the fiscal liabilities of employment?

The reason our governemnt is running short on funds is we have become over-dependent on government to solve too many of our needs and problems. 

And I don't think there's a desire so much by Kaiser and a lot of other Tulsans to make a smaller government, but a government that's a lot more efficient and do more with what it has.

Lord knows that enough public infrastructure projects (roads, etc.) have been put on the back burner because too much cash is going in other directions. If the audit frees up that cash, that means more for stuff that's really important. I don't necessarily think it would mean fewer jobs in the city. It may mean some folks get laid off or reassigned, and other departments would hire because some of the needs are real.

Besides, by the time this audit is completed and the results are presumably implemented, the economic recovery should be well on its way.

[Conan71]

And I don't think there's a desire so much by Kaiser and a lot of other Tulsans to make a smaller government, but a government that's a lot more efficient and do more with what it has.

Lord knows that enough public infrastructure projects (roads, etc.) have been put on the back burner because too much cash is going in other directions. If the audit frees up that cash, that means more for stuff that's really important. I don't necessarily think it would mean fewer jobs in the city. It may mean some folks get laid off or reassigned, and other departments would hire because some of the needs are real.

Besides, by the time this audit is completed and the results are presumably implemented, the economic recovery should be well on its way.

I wasn't implying with my post this audit would reduce city payroll, though I have my personal hopes that it could.  I heard the mayor saying in an interview this morning there are positions needed in other areas which can help provide essential services much better or provide services we cannot at the present by eliminating waste in other areas.  I will be curious to see what kind of political football this audit will be when the results are in and how long it takes to get a straight answer as to the results.

As far as a "recovery" goes, I think the effects of shopping in the suburbs (though that's easier to track) and revenue drain to casinos has been under-estimated.  Time will tell on that RW.

[RecycleMichael]

...revenue drain to casinos has been under-estimated. 

I completely agree. I know too many people who are going to the casinos every couple of weeks and think it is OK because they are being "entertained" while losing a couple of hundred dollars.

I think the State of Oklahoma got into the casino business poorly and Governor Brad Henry signed compacts that were too one-sided to the tribes side. 

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I know too many people who are going to the casinos every couple of weeks and think it is OK because they are being "entertained" while losing a couple of hundred dollars.

As far as their personal finances are concerned it is OK if they can afford the "entertainment". 

I will agree the city would be better off if they went somewhere that charged sales tax for the city. 
Send them to Bixby, I'm sure we could use the money too. 

[Conan71]

I've re-thought my responsibility as a citizen and what my consumption means to the well-being of the city both in terms of helping to support local jobs, local business owners, and the sales tax base.  I'm certainly not implying I'm one of the bigger consumers of goods and services, but if enough people have the same attitude it multiplies and becomes noticeable.

These days, I find myself rarely buying anything on-line anymore unless I absolutely cannot get it locally in a time frame that I need.  I try and buy from locally-owned or regionally-owned (i.e. Reasor's) stores or restaurants whenever possible.  I also try to support the local brewery as much as possible. 

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I also try to support the local brewery as much as possible. 

The most important one to support.

[Gaspar]

Does Kaiser read TulsaNow? Does he POST here?

We have become quite a suggestion box.

[godboko71]

Maybe seeing a crazy wacky "leftie" like me wanting audits done really meant something

[Conan71]

Does Kaiser read TulsaNow? Does he POST here?

I seemed to remember he registered at one point.  The old forum format showed member stats and would list the newest member.  I remembered seeing this when he did.  Not that I had any real interest in the river tax issue  :

From the member register

Name:  gkaiser
Real name:  
Posts:  0 (0 per day)
Position:  Citizen
Date Registered:  October 09, 2007, 01:21:21 am
Last Active:  November 07, 2007, 06:53:45 pm

If he still reads us, he's not signing in to do it.  If Oct. 9, 2007 sounds familiar, that was the day of the River Tax vote.