The Dumb Masses Love Surprises

[Conan71]

A responsible Republican party would have rolled back the Bush tax cuts to fund the war on terror.
But they didn't.  They could have attempted to find sources of funding for the medicare prescription drug benefit... but they didn't.
Why?

Because, in the words of military-industrial chickenhawk and federal budget pantywaist Dick Cheney,

"Deficits don't matter."

What exactly is it the Democrat controlled Senate, House, and Executive Branch are doing to raise revenues to keep up with run-away spending on pet entitlement programs right now?

Let's see, they racked up a record $220 bln deficit last month and they are...whoops...proposing TAX CUTS to stimulate JOB GROWTH.  But wait, I thought tax cuts didn't create jobs.  Someone forgot to tell Representative Sander Levin that:

"Rep. Sander Levin, the new chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said he favored giving small businesses a new capital-gains tax break to help spur job creation.

The Michigan Democrat, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, also proposed to restore the estate tax with a more generous exemption than would otherwise prevail next year."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704145904575112044284898012.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_PoliticsNCampaign_4

Damnit though, I keep forgetting the former President and Vice President keep causing all this deficit spending.

[guido911]

Back at you, freeper boy.

Tell us about your military service. 

[Gaspar]

Well the plan is falling apart again today because President Obama offered some lies by omission in his last speech.

Durbin is even calling Obama out on his claims:

"Anyone who would stand before you and say well, if you pass health care reform, next year's health care premiums are going down, I don't think is telling the truth. I think it is likely they would go up, but what we are trying to do is slow the rate of increase," Durbin said, speaking on the Senate floor.

. . . and the CBO just published it's report concluding that the Senate health care bill will raise the average family's health care premiums by $2,300.  Around $15,200 for a family. Collectively, premiums would rise 10 to 13%.  http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10781/11-30-Premiums.pdf

Realistic estimates most likely fall in the 25% range (historically CBO estimates are conservative).

The President Came up with his 14% to 20% savings by ignoring this information and only considering reductions caused by changes to the individual market is structured, and the influx of more people into the insurance market.

So when you boil it all down, your premiums will go up, but if your family makes under $80,000 yr and you are eligible, will receive subsidies that reduce your healthcare expenses by as much as 57%. . .Unless you are on an employer provided program.  The better the employer provided program the the more penalty you, and your employer, will have to pay. Additional measures in the plan allow you to "lock in" your existing plan until 2018 if you like it, but you will still be responsible for the penalty and at the whim of whatever the system evolves into by 2018.

The CBO concludes that they cannot accurately score this proposal due to "a substantial degree of uncertainly."

[Gaspar]

What exactly is it the Democrat controlled Senate, House, and Executive Branch are doing to raise revenues to keep up with run-away spending on pet entitlement programs right now?

Let's see, they racked up a record $220 bln deficit last month and they are...whoops...proposing TAX CUTS to stimulate JOB GROWTH.  But wait, I thought tax cuts didn't create jobs.  Someone forgot to tell Representative Sander Levin that:

"Rep. Sander Levin, the new chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said he favored giving small businesses a new capital-gains tax break to help spur job creation.

The Michigan Democrat, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, also proposed to restore the estate tax with a more generous exemption than would otherwise prevail next year."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704145904575112044284898012.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_PoliticsNCampaign_4

Damnit though, I keep forgetting the former President and Vice President keep causing all this deficit spending.

Tax cuts to "small businesses" (they called those "The Richest Americans" under Bush) are always the last resort of of failing liberals.  When BS fails, resort to tax cuts, get things working again, then shift back to BS.

[Conan71]

Well the plan is falling apart again today because President Obama offered some lies by omission in his last speech.

Durbin is even calling Obama out on his claims:

"Anyone who would stand before you and say well, if you pass health care reform, next year's health care premiums are going down, I don't think is telling the truth. I think it is likely they would go up, but what we are trying to do is slow the rate of increase," Durbin said, speaking on the Senate floor.

. . . and the CBO just published it's report concluding that the Senate health care bill will raise the average family's health care premiums by $2,300.  Around $15,200 for a family. Collectively, premiums would rise 10 to 13%.  http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10781/11-30-Premiums.pdf

Realistic estimates most likely fall in the 25% range (historically CBO estimates are conservative).

The President Came up with his 14% to 20% savings by ignoring this information and only considering reductions caused by changes to the individual market is structured, and the influx of more people into the insurance market.

So when you boil it all down, your premiums will go up, but if your family makes under $80,000 yr and you are eligible, will receive subsidies that reduce your healthcare expenses by as much as 57%. . .Unless you are on an employer provided program.  The better the employer provided program the the more penalty you, and your employer, will have to pay. Additional measures in the plan allow you to "lock in" your existing plan until 2018 if you like it, but you will still be responsible for the penalty and at the whim of whatever the system evolves into by 2018.

The CBO concludes that they cannot accurately score this proposal due to "a substantial degree of uncertainly."

Did I not just call this?  Who's obfuscating, Nathan?

[JeffM]

Reagan substantially lowered tax rates for the wealthiest Americans, then the deficit exploded and Reagan failed to keep his campaign promise to cut the Dept of Education, so instead he put in Bill Bennett.... months of double-digit unemployment... then, while I was a student in college, my taxes were raised and minimum wage frozen..... one  summer, I wore a 3-piece suit just to try to get a summer job at Arby's.... and I shouldn't forget Reagan bailouts of banks that were "too big to fail"......

Yet, even Jimmy "malaise" Carter didn't have the crazy liberal chutzpah to leave Reagan two wars to pay for... wars that were kept officially "off budget" ..... the kinds of problems Bush left on Obama's plate....

If and when a healthcare reform bill actually passes, I predict that Mitt Romney will be political toast.
Because Romney will either be forced into a "nuanced position" unpopular with the conservative base; or he will be forced to run against his own Massachusetts healthcare reform policies, thus putting him firmly in the hypocrite catagory.....

I understand the talking points that are used to justify your perpetual rhetoric that Obama is an "empty suit" and a "weak leader."  So, I came to the conclusion that you're full of it.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a Creationist.... predetermined dogmatically inflexible positions.... pre-existing political conclusions.... conservative webforum groupthink..... it's a lose-lose.

The picture of Barack Obama that the conservative political chattering classes and the Republican Activist Media try to RAM DOWN OUR THROATS is not close to being accurate or even reasonable....

I'd rather talk with Buzz over at Empire or any of the folks watching soccer over at Fox & Hound.... or any number of reasonable folks, over the rightwing political bias and general craziness that's typical of this forum.

[Conan71]

Reagan substantially lowered tax rates for the wealthiest Americans, then the deficit exploded and Reagan failed to keep his campaign promise to cut the Dept of Education, so instead he put in Bill Bennett.... months of double-digit unemployment... then, while I was a student in college, my taxes were raised and minimum wage frozen..... one  summer, I wore a 3-piece suit just to try to get a summer job at Arby's.... and I shouldn't forget Reagan bailouts of banks that were "too big to fail"......

Yet, even Jimmy "malaise" Carter didn't have the crazy liberal chutzpah to leave Reagan two wars to pay for... wars that were kept officially "off budget" ..... the kinds of problems Bush left on Obama's plate....

If and when a healthcare reform bill actually passes, I predict that Mitt Romney will be political toast.
Because Romney will either be forced into a "nuanced position" unpopular with the conservative base; or he will be forced to run against his own Massachusetts healthcare reform policies, thus putting him firmly in the hypocrite catagory.....

I understand the talking points that are used to justify your perpetual rhetoric that Obama is an "empty suit" and a "weak leader."  So, I came to the conclusion that you're full of it.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a Creationist.... predetermined dogmatically inflexible positions.... pre-existing political conclusions.... conservative webforum groupthink..... it's a lose-lose.

The picture of Barack Obama that the conservative political chattering classes and the Republican Activist Media try to RAM DOWN OUR THROATS is not close to being accurate or even reasonable....

I'd rather talk with Buzz over at Empire or any of the folks watching soccer over at Fox & Hound.... or any number of reasonable folks, over the rightwing political bias and general craziness that's typical of this forum.

Ladies & Gentlemen, another USRufnex flashback brought to you by

[Gaspar]

I don't think I got any of Ruff's last post?

Growl. . .growl. . .crazy. . .BUSH'S FAULT. . .anger. . . hypocrite. . .anger. . .full of it. . .Republican. . . Soccer.

They have soccer on TV?

[Conan71]

[JeffM]

Memories of Conan the Reasonable-- avatars past....







Sorry to interrupt the conservative Conan-Gas-Guido poliitical circle jerk... please go on.....

[Gaspar]

Why do some resort to foul language and insults?  Is that an indication of weakness?

Raise your voice or strengthen your argument. 

Your choice Ruff.

[nathanm]

Tax cuts to "small businesses" (they called those "The Richest Americans" under Bush) are always the last resort of of failing liberals.  When BS fails, resort to tax cuts, get things working again, then shift back to BS.

If a person is too stupid to do their taxes correctly, that's not my problem. If they did it right, they would only be taxed on profits paid to the owner. Some people aren't willing to spend the $500 or whatever it costs to form an LLC and choose corporate taxation.  

Regarding insurance premium increases, they're already going up 15% a year. At least that's what my clients who offer their employees health insurance tell me.

[Conan71]

Why do some resort to foul language and insults?  Is that an indication of weakness?

Raise your voice or strengthen your argument. 

Your choice Ruff.

That's the sound of a vanquished person, Gaspar.  He's run out of Googled sources that talk about how great President Obama is that's any newer than his innauguration.  He can't point to anything constructive nor list examples of where the current admin is achieving greatness anything, so it's time to resort to ad-hominems and in a circular fashion trying to blame current problems on a President who left office 22 years ago and all the world's problems on conservatism or Republicans.

[JeffM]

Vanquished?

No, that's just wishful thinking on your part, Mr. I've-posted-fifty-times-today.  

Just because most of TNF's females no longer post here doesn't mean their opinions on national politics are uninformed or irrelevant.  For me, I no longer have the time to post, but happened to have an extra day off today.

Some of us work full time and aren't allowed to goof off while we're on the clock.... besides, I have better things to do with my time than to argue with wingnuts who think the country's now being ruled by Saul Alinsky.... shame on you.

My memories of Reagan are used more as comparison, not necessarily blame.
I like to use Reagan's first couple of years in office to point out the blatant hypocrisy from those who think we shouldn't be blaming Bush for the economic crisis this country has had since Obama took office.

When I walk around town, I consider myself a Tulsan.

But when I read some of the unhinged stuff on this site, I wonder out loud if it was the right decision to move here.  I sometimes wonder if the oil industry hasn't implanted most of you with a buncha wingnut alternate universe microchips....

[nathanm]

I sometimes wonder if the oil industry hasn't implanted most of you with a buncha wingnut alternate universe microchips....

You've discovered my secret! I haven't visited a doctor in Tulsa, ever. I get all my medical treatment in a blue state!