old city hall... sell sell sell!

[Conan71]

We deserve having the council negotiate on our behalf instead of just accepting the first offer.

They need to negotiate in the best interest of the owners of the building: the citizens of Tulsa. I'd rather see it sold now for a lower offer to a capable developer. The Snyders proved themselves with The Mayo. It was inches from certain death and an eyesore for 30 years because it kept changing hands between "developers" who couldn't come up with the money to make renovation a reality. We came fairly close to dropping trou for the Branson Landing developers for what $45mm or so in subsidizing the purchase of the concrete plant.

WTH is wrong with taking a cash offer of $1mm on a building which probably isn't really worth more than $4mm in the current market, especially when they buyer will assume all risks and has the funding to make it happen and get the proprty generating property & sales tax as well as helping to recruit more business downtown. Call it corporate welfare if you like, but this is as good a deal as I think we will see in the current economic and lending climate.

If you think it's worth more, put your money where your mouth is.

[fotd]

They need to negotiate in the best interest of the owners of the building: the citizens of Tulsa. I'd rather see it sold now for a lower offer to a capable developer. The Snyders proved themselves with The Mayo. It was inches from certain death and an eyesore for 30 years because it kept changing hands between "developers" who couldn't come up with the money to make renovation a reality. We came fairly close to dropping trou for the Branson Landing developers for what $45mm or so in subsidizing the purchase of the concrete plant.

WTH is wrong with taking a cash offer of $1mm on a building which probably isn't really worth more than $4mm in the current market, especially when they buyer will assume all risks and has the funding to make it happen and get the proprty generating property & sales tax as well as helping to recruit more business downtown. Call it corporate welfare if you like, but this is as good a deal as I think we will see in the current economic and lending climate.

If you think it's worth more, put your money where your mouth is.

Nopey....downtown money in real estate is for the foundations and the construction companies....not to mention TDA and the Chamber...gotta keep their jobs. You sound, and the city sounds, like desperate sellers.

Tulsa is just a big Muskogee...

[Conan71]

Every day it's in the hands of TDA or COT it's cost us another $1600 or so plus the additional damage due to neglect. That site isn't getting more valuable by the day & it's a drain. Let the Snyders assume that and start the process of improving it.

[PonderInc]

A few years ago, I was trying to sell a car.  It was in nice shape, and I thought: "it should sell for x amount."  It didn't sell for that amount.  But, instead of dropping the price, I held onto it, waiting for the right time and buyer to come along.  In the meantime, I had to pay insurance, tags, maintenance, etc.  With each passing month, it decreased in value, and the longer it sat around, the more problems it started to have.

Moral of the story: Don't be greedy.  If you don't have a use for it, sell the darn thing and let someone else enjoy it, use it, and pay to maintain it.

[Rico]

You know zilch about real estate transactions.....

fotd,

Please elaborate if you don't mind.
I was simply agreeing with you and wondering, out loud, if there was a plan in place that covered parking for the other entities surrounding City Hall.
rico

One added note.
I saw plans for the Court House to be relocated to a site closer to David L Moss. Included in the papers was a site designated to be the fture home of a "Super Wal-Mart". Very close to to where the Day Center and Avalon now are located.

[fotd]

PC, I agree the blood letting needs to stop...more shoot from the city hip? Wasn't this "continued" maintenance accounted for in the sale modeling to move to The Bork? In development there are serious costs prior to the final plan. And the Snyders (Rooney's?) are certainly capable...but are Macy and Tori doing this based on their financials? You just don't leap without doing due diligence. Lots of serious issues need to be addressed before you give this liability to an opportunist. Gawd forbid the shitty screws this up again and there you are with your hatchet out.....

[fotd]

fotd,

Please elaborate if you don't mind.
I was simply agreeing with you and wondering, out loud, if there was a plan in place that covered parking for the other entities surrounding City Hall.
rico

One added note.
I saw plans for the Court House to be relocated to a site closer to David L Moss. Included in the papers was a site designated to be the fture home of a "Super Wal-Mart". Very close to to where the Day Center and Avalon now are located.

You saw plans for a Wal Mart where? Those were from the Savage Crayola Daze, no doubt. Wal mart would neva go there...architects often get dreamy to instigate getting on the public dole...

With regard to a "plan"....don't be silly, this is a big Muskogee.

[Rico]

"You saw plans for a Wal Mart where?"



To the North of the BOK and West approximately where Storey is now and the land West to the loop.

According to the source this was agreed upon when they were going in at the Nordam site.
City i.e. Taylor was involved. I believe Schusterman owns some of the land.

Well I never gave it a whole lot of thought, as plans and the such are so plentiful in Tulsa.

[DTowner]

There is nothing wrong with the city council exhibiting prudent skepticism about the $1 million offer and asking questions.  However, the council should have shown equal or more skepticism when they were given the original appraisal.  It's not like there were any comps or firm evidence on which to base the appraisal.

Unfortuantely, some on the council seem more concerned with preventing anyone from making a buck on any deal with the city.  It is that attitude that has lead to the city holding onto properties for decades while waiting for the perfect buyer/devlopment project to come along.

The city marketed this property for 3 years and received exactly 1 offer.  That offer has been publically known for months and no one has come in to make a better offer.  As noted above, unlike much of vacant land the city owns, this propery is costing the city money every day it doesn't sell it.  Thus, the $1 million offer is going down in value every day the council doesn't act.

[Conan71]

There is nothing wrong with the city council exhibiting prudent skepticism about the $1 million offer and asking questions.  However, the council should have shown equal or more skepticism when they were given the original appraisal.  It's not like there were any comps or firm evidence on which to base the appraisal.

Unfortuantely, some on the council seem more concerned with preventing anyone from making a buck on any deal with the city.  It is that attitude that has lead to the city holding onto properties for decades while waiting for the perfect buyer/devlopment project to come along.

The city marketed this property for 3 years and received exactly 1 offer.  That offer has been publically known for months and no one has come in to make a better offer.  As noted above, unlike much of vacant land the city owns, this propery is costing the city money every day it doesn't sell it.  Thus, the $1 million offer is going down in value every day the council doesn't act.

Or they should have showed better skepticism when Staubach & Co was offered a contract which would reward them with more money if they could justify the move to OneTech.

[Conan71]

PC, I agree the blood letting needs to stop...more shoot from the city hip? Wasn't this "continued" maintenance accounted for in the sale modeling to move to The Bork? In development there are serious costs prior to the final plan. And the Snyders (Rooney's?) are certainly capable...but are Macy and Tori doing this based on their financials? You just don't leap without doing due diligence. Lots of serious issues need to be addressed before you give this liability to an opportunist. Gawd forbid the shitty screws this up again and there you are with your hatchet out.....

I really don't care if it's Rooney's money Tori and Macy spend, just as long as all they are basically asking for is a $5.2mm discount on the appraised price. 

You know as well as I do an appraisal is only worth the paper it's written on if no one is willing to pay what the appraisal says it is worth.  I'm real curious how they arrived at the value they did.  There were rumors awash that one of Bill Lobeck's developer buddies was a lock on buying the property and doing something with it as soon as the city could vacate.

[fotd]

Wow....you don't care if the buyer doesn't have the financial ability to carry through....wow.

[Conan71]

Wow....you don't care if the buyer doesn't have the financial ability to carry through....wow.

Absolutely incorrect.  I don't care if they are spending Snyder money or Rooney money so long as they can follow through.

[Daniel Wright]

If selling the old City Hall results in getting the Plaza area with the long dead fountains cleaned up and restored then I am all for it. 

[RecycleMichael]

I have full faith that these developers have the financing in place and will do a good job.

Sell the building. A hotel there will be great for attracting conventions.