What is Going On in Arizona?

[Gaspar]

From the State Dept. . .

"US National Guard troops being sent to the Mexican border will be used to stem the flow of guns and drugs across the frontier and not to enforce US immigration laws," the State Department said Wednesday.

That comes less than a week after the President said this. . .

He said the move was "fully consistent with our efforts to do our part to stem, you know, violence, to interdict the flow of dangerous people and dangerous goods -- drugs, guns, people."

So you guys were right. . . It was just another gimmick.

[we vs us]

Hmm. . . Still on the "previous administration" thing.  You should just make your tag line say "Yeah, but the previous administration. . ."

The actions of previous administrations are no longer a license for poor performance.  That door has closed.

I wouldn't say that.  How can we measure performance if not in comparison to past results? 

At the same time, there's a lot of smile to shovel from the last 8 years. 

[rwarn17588]

The actions of previous administrations are no longer a license for poor performance. 

If you have a previous leader who ran up big deficits during good economic conditions, then it would stand to reason that you're going have even bigger deficits when the economy turns south.

If you're a leader, your goal is to make sure you left the place better than you left it. On that aspect, Bush II failed miserably. That is indisputable. Your inability to acknowledge these facts is disturbing.

[Gaspar]

If you have a previous leader who ran up big deficits during good economic conditions, then it would stand to reason that you're going have even bigger deficits when the economy turns south.

If you're a leader, your goal is to make sure you left the place better than you left it. On that aspect, Bush II failed miserably. That is indisputable. Your inability to acknowledge these facts is disturbing.

I'm not a Bush defender by any means.  He was a very mediocre president.  His whole last term was crap.  He did nothing but battle an out of control congress, and then just gave up.  The economy was in a slump when he left, because he could do little to curb Fanny & Freddy's appetite for disaster.  I argue none of this.  I also recognize, as every other intelligent person should, that deficits increase in a recession.  Standard crisis stuff.

What I do not accept is pushing through trillions of dollars in completely unrelated spending at a rate of billions a day, and then saying "well it's all Bush's fault."  Some stimulus spending, yes, but everything else. . .hell no.

Congress passed PAYGO 3 months ago, and since that time has racked up hundreds of billions of dollars in extra UNFUNDED spending, and hundreds of billions more lays on the floor of the house to be approved.

He has not done a single thing to control spending.  He has not reigned in Congress at all.  On the contrary, he has outspent every president COMBINED.  This administrations legacy will last for decades, and he has a license to do it just by saying "I'm cleaning up Bush's mess."  It's not even good bull$hit.

[Hoss]

Hmm. . . Still on the "previous administration" thing.  You should just make your tag line say "Yeah, but the previous administration. . ."

The actions of previous administrations are no longer a license for poor performance.  That door has closed.

Tell that to previous administrations.  I'm sure your favorite whipping boy was Clinton when Bush Jr was in the House.

I'm not saying he's solely to blame.  But some of it (actually a pretty large part of it) rests on his shoulders and some on previous admins before him.  Let's keep in mind that this mess that has been created wouldn't have been a mess had some common-sense things been done under the last two four-year terms.

I love watching the hand-wringing.  But don't let me temper that pi$$ and vinegar.

[guido911]

What I do not accept is pushing through trillions of dollars in completely unrelated spending at a rate of billions a day, and then saying "well it's all Bush's fault."  Some stimulus spending, yes, but everything else. . .hell no.

You don't get it. Because Bush "squandered" billions fighting his wars, it's okay for Obama to do the same (trillions though) on ineffective stimulus and omnibus. After all, it's his turn.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, got it.  Still don't appreciate it. 

I've got kids that have to live through the mess.

[Conan71]

I find it palpable that when the economy went in the crapper in 2001/2002 that it was entirely President Bush's fault and that none of the policies of the Clinton years were culpable.  It was always about the crooks at Enron (and those like them) and their friends in the Bush administration.

Back on topic.  Now with the AG mulling over a suit calling this bill unconstitutional because it attempts to over-ride the duties of the Federal government, I'm amazed at the chutzpah.  Obviously the Feds aren't doing their job or Arizona would not have felt the need to pass the law.

[we vs us]

You don't get it. Because Bush "squandered" billions fighting his wars, it's okay for Obama to do the same (trillions though) on ineffective stimulus and omnibus. After all, it's his turn.

Nation building at home > nation building abroad.

[guido911]

Nation building bankrupting at home > nation building abroad.

That's more like it.

[Conan71]

Nation building at home > nation building abroad.

I trust you noted his latest "emergency" military spending bill after promising there would be no more emergency military spending bills, yes?

[Gaspar]

I trust you noted his latest "emergency" military spending bill after promising there would be no more emergency military spending bills, yes?

There will also be "no more stimulus" and congress will follow the strict rules of PAYGO. LOL.

. . .and I think I've come to the conclusion that if someone is inept, you don't just do the job for them. . .you fire them, and give them the opportunity to find a line of work that is a better fit for their capabilities. 

Border security is a very basic responsibility of the federal government (perhaps #1 on the list), and over the past few administrations we have seen the fed turn away from their primary responsibilities and focus on other crap (that's really the only term that fits).

Arizona is simply reminding them of their job.  It's like the bell at McDonalds that tells the moron when the fries are done.  Arizona is the bell.  Time to do your job!

You can't avoid it any longer, because your bosses are pissed!

[nathanm]

You don't get it. Because Bush "squandered" billions fighting his wars, it's okay for Obama to do the same (trillions though) on ineffective stimulus and omnibus. After all, it's his turn.

This is pretty off topic, but I dare say that the stimulus has thus far been effective at its main purpose, which is to prevent the onset of deflation. Despite the trillions of dollars destroyed by the market, we are still sitting at about .9% core inflation.

I can see that this thread has a lot of IOKIYAR going on. Amazing how people can be screaming for the federal government to do something to secure the borders, yet when Obama finally caves and does the stupid thing people have been asking for he gets lambasted for it.  

And last I checked, Bush's wars (one of which Obama has wrongly decided he should make his own) have already cost more than a trillion dollars. (About $750 billion for Iraq alone, thus far) Supposedly, by the time all is said and done, economists and the CBO expect the total cost of Iraq alone to be between 2 and 3 trillion dollars.

[Gaspar]

Amazing how people can be screaming for the federal government to do something to secure the borders, yet when Obama finally caves and does the stupid thing people have been asking for he gets lambasted for it.  

And last I checked, Bush's wars (one of which Obama has wrongly decided he should make his own) have already cost more than a trillion dollars. (About $750 billion for Iraq alone, thus far) Supposedly, by the time all is said and done, economists and the CBO expect the total cost of Iraq alone to be between 2 and 3 trillion dollars.

First of all, why would securing our borders be stupid?
Second, when will the ineptitude of President Obama stop being compared to the ineptitude of Bush?
(a date will be fine)

We are supposed to learn from the mistakes of the past, not use them as excuses for the present.

If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future. – Winston Churchill

[nathanm]

First of all, why would securing our borders be stupid?

We don't need the military to secure our borders, we need to liberalize immigration so that the border patrol can reasonably combat the reduced numbers of illegal crossings. Sending the military is buying into the idea that this is a problem that any level of force we can reasonably use can solve, when it is clearly not. But you know that, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about him sending troops and saying that it's a waste of money.

Second, when will the ineptitude of President Obama stop being compared to the ineptitude of Bush?
(a date will be fine)

When you guys stop referring to Reagan as the messiah. Not that I was comparing ineptitudes at all, I was comparing moderate success to utter failure.

We are supposed to learn from the mistakes of the past, not use them as excuses for the present.

I was refuting Guido's underestimate of the cost of our foreign adventures, not using them to justify anything Obama has done. Sorry I wasn't more clear about that.

Anyway, let's not get into your 9AM post, it gives me a headache from all the rewriting of history. I didn't realize you were a fan of 1984.