Tulsa Now Forum

[Conan71]

OK, I'll vacate this thread. But just remember I am the devil's advocate and the devil's disciple here. Just wouldn't be the same without all my evil to counterbalance all the good.

It'd be alright if your schtick didn't drive away members and consistently wreck the threads here which do have value. Every development topic doesn't have to end up in a discussion of crooked local officials or you trying to belittle people with less experience in development. Why don't you put your life experience to good use instead of constantly antagonizing people?  I'm sure there's probably lots of things others could learn from you as a lifelong? Tulsan. Certainly you've done more than sit around and snipe your entire life...oh and aside from concert road trips as well 

[heironymouspasparagus]

From custosnox;
I think it woudl go a long way to make new people more welcome here.  It seems that when we get new posters that some people try their best to show them that they (they being some of the established posters) are the elite and try and put down anything the new posters say.  Of course, the national politics section seems to be an area where this happens quiet a bit.  In any case, I really think it would go a long way for posters here to NOT try so hard to prove that they are better then anyone who is new.


Boy, ain't that the truth.  When I started sticking my nose into this, I was told that in almost those exact words.  I ignored them of course.

National politics is definitely appropriate to the site as well as the other topics.  This gives people from outside an insight into the makeup of the area.  Easy to see that there is a heavy conservative bias in Tulsa, with a much smaller but very vocal liberal contingent.  Then there is me, an extreme (extremist??) moderate, who swings both ways.  Bi-political tendencies.

[nathanm]

Bi-political tendencies.

You'd better watch out, there's a constitutional amendment up this year to outlaw that. (I kid, I kid)

Part of the "problem" is inherent to all communities. There are always in jokes and interpersonal relationships that "outsiders" don't get yet.

It behooves one to lurk for a while to get the feel of a particular community before actively engaging. Some folks say some pretty snarky and offensive things here sometimes, but I don't take it personally. Sometimes, I respond in kind. I don't think the recipients of my snark take it personally anyway. We realize it's all in good fun.

Anyway, I think it's past time for a Sundown Wheat..

[JeffM]

I'll take bi-political over homo-partisan.... no offense. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Homo-partisan???
Sounds like a made up word. (??)

Anything like "shrimping"?
(Forget that, we don't wanna go there...)

Constitutional amendment...kewl!!  More felonies to commit!

[custosnox]

Homo-partisan - Same Partisan

[Conan71]

I'll take bi-political over homo-partisan.... no offense. 

"Noth that there's anything wrong with that"

[waterboy]

8ft drift.

I'm already on record with my feelings about the forum. I am a recovering TN addict. Our political passions have seeped into nearly every topic and made the whole weaker for it. I can't find any other forum I'd be a member of however.

This forum IS Tulsa and explains a lot of the city's personality to new visitors.

[jmo]

I feel that the National & International Politics section is inappropriate on this forum. I rarely see much in that section which directly applies to a Tulsa-based forum. I personally know at least two posters who stopped visiting this forum as soon as the National & International Politics threads became the primary focus for this forum, and I know that my participation on this forum greatly decreased as well. If you want to discuss national politics, there are several other forums in which one can debate. The TulsaNow forum, in my opinion, is not the place.

In one way or anther, National & International Politics can effect Tulsa and surrounding communities.  I've not been here long, I've manly done a lot of reading and ticked off a couple folks but so far, what I see I like.  Imho, I think it should stay.

[Admin]

Unfortunately, one thing that bugs me is that the once popular "General Discussion" section has now become the "Other Discussion" section.  The "Development & New Business" section and the "PlaniTulsa" sections are separated.  Why is this necessary?.....  Those sections can easily be combined, while leaving a General Discussion section open for somebody like me, who may post about an apt fire this morning or some mishap at one of Kitchell's clubs.....

They were seperated to give more focus on Plaitulsa but also because it is both a political and development program and doesn't fit squarely in either. It will get reabsorbed at some point. As for the change from General to Other discussion, we were just putting "misc" at the end to help more topics end up in the right category. Note that one of the OP's complaints was things being posted in the wrong place. If it's location and name is a real issue, I have no problem putting it back.

I am supportive of downtown development and would have been tempted to try to be active within the organization TulsaNow, but this forum descended into groupthink all too often and I felt there were hidden agendas being pursued by certain posters (TulsaNow members?) who could sign in as "Admin" at any time..... I remember having an argument with someone who accidentally signed in as "Admin" for their next 2 posts.  Which may explain why I currently take the moderating and censorship decisions on this site with a grain of salt....

I re-read over two years of posts by admin and can't find anything of that nature. Not to say that it didn't happen but I personally can't remember ever arguing with you about anything. There have only ever been one admin of the board at a time and this board exists under the governance of the TulsaNow board but it's day-to-day operations is rarely, if ever discussed by the board. Day-to-day operations of the board are done by the moderators and while some have been board members from time to time, the majority of moderators have been regular posters. For the first several years, moderation was done under the individual's ID but some posters would consistently claim that the moderators were not impartial. Hiding the identities also allows us to promote and demote moderators without constant conspiracies about "why is he/she a moderator" or "why is he/she no long a moderator" conspiracy theories.

TulsaNow needs to decide whether this forum is going to be a true Public Forum-- a worthy broad based and thoughtful alternative to citydata or the TW comments section; or whether it simply becomes an outlet for the TN organization to express its own narrowly focused views to a handful of like-minded congregants....

IMHO, anyone who can sign in as "Admin" or "Moderator" should have that title clearly listed on their forum profile.  This is one of the few sites where the Admin or Moderator titles are kept anonymous.... as long as that continues to be the case, I'll post every now and then about my soccer ideas, or engage in the occasional political pissing match.... but beyond that, no need to engage in detailed discussion the way the forum is currently organized.

My two cents.

If you can be specific about how the organization has an effect on the content of the site I'd like to know what they are. If you haven't notices, TulsaNow rarely speaks on any issues. We bring speakers in, host forums and discussions but we believe the best route is to get the best minds in a room and let them draw the conclusion. One prime example is that many (but not all) of our board members supported the river tax yet our public forum on the topic ended with the "anti" side becoming clearly dominant. Like all of our forums, no-one from our group spoke on the topic discussed.

[SXSW]

Everything looks much more organized, thanks Admin!  Now we just need to get our active posters back and recruit new ones.   

[Townsend]

Now we just need to recruit new ones.   

I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site.  Everyone I successfully got to look  was chased off for one reason or another. 

I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering.  At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do.  I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was.  That was that.

[Conan71]

I've read some really good suggestions and I commend SXSW for starting the topic.  I also like having someone typically associated with the great "Tulsa brain drain" moving back to Tulsa after college, working here, buying a house, and taking an active role on TNF.  

I don't think the forum has become over-used for national and international politics near as much as local content is under-utilized and under-reported.  Not to sound snide (take it that way if you like, I simply tend to think more solution-oriented rather than problem-oriented), but how many of the people who have said they no longer post here due to national politics were regularly posting local content or items for local discussion?  No one forced them onto the national politics section in the first place.  If you get into a polictical discussion, you know it can involve passion and heated discourse.

I've enjoyed the relative free form nature of the forum and hands-off moderation style, but I can see where that's probably allowed some bullying to go on far too long which may have driven off some very creative posters.  I'm just as guilty as taking bait as anyone, letting a conversation stray, or getting frustrated and tearing into someone. Personally, I will refrain from that as best I can.

Here's my recommendations:

-See if those of us who pretty much form the content nucleus of the forum will start posting more Tulsa-centric topics, I will attempt to contribute a couple of items daily.

-Moderate the crap out of threads if they start steering too far off the intended course, (unless said discussion winds up talking about Marshall's Beer).

-Move topics to appropriate sections if they are posted in the wrong place.

-National politics, I think you know what you are getting if you go there: gloves off.  Some people need a place to blow off steam on national events and politics.  I don't know that I'd clamp down too hard just make sure it doesn't creep into local and state politics.

-I agree with Nathan, there are some seriously divergent views on the national topics, but I honestly don't think there's any real ill will.  I can call some of the more liberal members here friends due to forum lunches and there being an underlying respect throughout all the verbal jabs we exchange.  But, there are some posters whose only purpose is to agitate.  Two pet peeves of mine are "Teaba**er" and the constant accusation of "racism" toward conservative views.  Could we all agree to back off the stereotypes we've made toward liberalism and conservatism?  There's some posters who exisit to do nothing but agitate, moderate the smile out of them.

Those are my simple suggestions.

[sgrizzle]

I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site.  Everyone I successfully got to look  was chased off for one reason or another. 

I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering.  At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do.  I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was.  That was that.

I stay out of national politics because that seems to be where all the asshats or people who want to act like asshats hang out.



I'm not sure how you can filter between "real troublemaker" and "kinda troublemaker" but I'd say it's been better since FB left.

[Conan71]

I gave that a shot when we were a more helpful site.  Everyone I successfully got to look  was chased off for one reason or another. 

I was told by one that he saw no reason to get involved with all the bickering.  At first he thought it was funny but then he said it was all he read and he had better things to do.  I brought up the site, clicked on "unread", and it was all there was.  That was that.

There again, on-line chatter about development, politics, and events brings out all sorts of opinions which can turn into bickering.  I don't know how you change that other than to become more of a newspaper format and not encourage any public comments.