Should Inmates Be Allowed To Vote?

[Gaspar]

Gaspar.  Convicts don't forfeit the basic privileges of our Constitution; on the contrary, there are some constitutional rights (right to a trial by jury; right to a speedy trial and confrontation of witnesses; right from cruel and unusual punishment, etc) reserved solely for those working their way through the American crime-and-punishment system.   

I stand corrected.  They forfeit MANY of the privileges of our constitution, because access to those privileges make them a danger to others.  The privilege of voting would certainly be considered so.  Lets explore the scenario. . .

The incarcerated would certainly vote for whomever promised the most lenient in sentencing, and whoever promoted the most ineffective justices.   Like most voting blocks prisoners would focus on the politician that offered them the most.

From a politician's standpoint, the nearly 3 million incarcerated individuals would represent a MAJOR voting block.  Why?. . .Because they are a, pardon the pun, captive audience who, with little else to do, would turn up to vote by a margin of almost 100%. 

Now, I'm not saying all politicians pander. . . Wait. . .Yes I am!  Some politicians would go on prison tours (through all 57 states  ) and even make supreme court appointments based on gaining that voting block of 3 million.

We would gain interest groups, lobbies and powerful politicians beholden to criminals and the organizations that they belong to and support.  Pardons would be handed out, not based on merit or injustice, but as party campaign teasers to satisfy The League of Felonious Voters, or the Registered Sex Offenders of America. 

I would also guarantee that the politics of prison and the various gangs would be happy to offer "counseling" to any individual that votes against gang/party rule.

Giving inmates the right to vote is just about as stupid as the previous suggestions to give illegal aliens and the resident's of other countries the right to vote in US elections.

[jamesrage]

So you disagree with sex offenders not being allowed to live near schools, or be in a occupation that puts them in contact with children on a regular basis?  Just to clarify, when I mean sex offenders I mean the molesters and of that ilk, not the lady that has to register because she got drunk and flashed someone.

"Inmates should not be allowed to vote. But once you are released and served your full sentence all your constitutional rights should be fully restored to you. If you can not be trusted to have all your constitutional rights fully restored to you then you should not have ever been released in the first place."

[custosnox]

"Inmates should not be allowed to vote. But once you are released and served your full sentence all your constitutional rights should be fully restored to you. If you can not be trusted to have all your constitutional rights fully restored to you then you should not have ever been released in the first place."

Which says to me that either yes you support them being allowed to have contact with children with absolutely no restrictions, or that they should always be given life sentences.

[nathanm]

I stand corrected.  They forfeit MANY of the privileges of our constitution, because access to those privileges make them a danger to others.  The privilege of voting would certainly be considered so.  Lets explore the scenario. . .

The incarcerated would certainly vote for whomever promised the most lenient in sentencing, and whoever promoted the most ineffective justices.   Like most voting blocks prisoners would focus on the politician that offered them the most.

From a politician's standpoint, the nearly 3 million incarcerated individuals would represent a MAJOR voting block.  Why?. . .Because they are a, pardon the pun, captive audience who, with little else to do, would turn up to vote by a margin of almost 100%. 
..
I would also guarantee that the politics of prison and the various gangs would be happy to offer "counseling" to any individual that votes against gang/party rule.

You have a fertile imagination. One which is proven quite wrong by Maine and Vermont. Nice try, though.

Perhaps you don't get it, but there are more of us than there are prisoners. If they want to agitate for more lenient sentences, we can agitate against that. As the Supreme Court has written on many occasions: "The solution to free speech you don't like is more free speech."

Your final issue is easily solvable. Simply stop letting inmates get away with all the smile that they do. Stop the prison violence, stop the gang rape, stop everything else untoward that goes on. It goes on because prison guards are bribed to look the other way. How about we make prison a humane place so that people don't come back more likely to reoffend?

[Conan71]

You have a fertile imagination. One which is proven quite wrong by Maine and Vermont. Nice try, though.

Perhaps you don't get it, but there are more of us than there are prisoners. If they want to agitate for more lenient sentences, we can agitate against that. As the Supreme Court has written on many occasions: "The solution to free speech you don't like is more free speech."

Your final issue is easily solvable. Simply stop letting inmates get away with all the smile that they do. Stop the prison violence, stop the gang rape, stop everything else untoward that goes on. It goes on because prison guards are bribed to look the other way. How about we make prison a humane place so that people don't come back more likely to reoffend?

Do naive much?

[nathanm]

Do naive much?

I guess the Supreme Court is naive, and Maine and Vermont don't exist, nor do any of the other hundreds of nations on this earth from whom we might occasionally learn something.

[custosnox]

Your final issue is easily solvable. Simply stop letting inmates get away with all the smile that they do. Stop the prison violence, stop the gang rape, stop everything else untoward that goes on. It goes on because prison guards are bribed to look the other way. How about we make prison a humane place so that people don't come back more likely to reoffend?

A little drift here, but about the only way to stop the prison violence, et al is to seperate each of the prisoners.  If this is done, then it would be argued that it would cause anti-social behaviors becasue they were not allowed to socialize.  

[nathanm]

A little drift here, but about the only way to stop the prison violence, et al is to seperate each of the prisoners.  If this is done, then it would be argued that it would cause anti-social behaviors becasue they were not allowed to socialize.  

I don't think you can really make that determination without first making a serious attempt to prevent inmate-on-inmate violence. Other countries seem to manage it ok.

[custosnox]

I don't think you can really make that determination without first making a serious attempt to prevent inmate-on-inmate violence. Other countries seem to manage it ok.

Even with the best measures in place, I think the best we could hope for would be a large drop in, but I'm sure that in every country you would see that it still exists on some degree.

[nathanm]

Even with the best measures in place, I think the best we could hope for would be a large drop in, but I'm sure that in every country you would see that it still exists on some degree.

Some states manage to keep the violence (especially rape) pretty low. We aren't one of those states. In 2003 (the latest numbers I can find), we were #7 in the nation in reported prison rapes. That sort of thing can't be good for rehabilitation.

While I'm sure there were plenty of gangs and violence in prisons previously, it seems to have taken off when we decided we didn't want to "coddle" them and let them have interesting things to do so they can better themselves. Rewards for good behavior, like (gasp!) TV would go a long way towards making people less willing to participate in violence against other inmates.

I'm drifting, but at least it's somewhat related to the topic!

[Gaspar]

Your final issue is easily solvable. Simply stop letting inmates get away with all the smile that they do. Stop the prison violence, stop the gang rape, stop everything else untoward that goes on. It goes on because prison guards are bribed to look the other way. How about we make prison a humane place so that people don't come back more likely to reoffend?

I have to admit, I admire simple solutions, however the process of "easily solving" the problem of prison violence would most likely involve infringement on the very inmate rights and freedoms you seem so very fond of.

Again, I have come to the conclusion that you adopt positions for the sake of argument rather than to present any significant contribution based in reason.  Don't take that as an insult, you do a far better job of providing basis, research, and understanding than FOTD did, but you still attempt to drive the wrong end of the nail.

The privilege to vote in this country should be honored and subject to the unalienable right to liberty.  When a man's liberty is suspended because it is deemed that his actions infringe on the rights of others, his vote should not be allowed to cancel the vote of his victims or any other member of society.

[nathanm]

I have to admit, I admire simple solutions, however the process of "easily solving" the problem of prison violence would most likely involve infringement on the very inmate rights and freedoms you seem so very fond of.

Again, I have come to the conclusion that you adopt positions for the sake of argument rather than to present any significant contribution based in reason.  Don't take that as an insult, you do a far better job of providing basis, research, and understanding than FOTD did, but you still attempt to drive the wrong end of the nail.

The privilege to vote in this country should be honored and subject to the unalienable right to liberty.  When a man's liberty is suspended because it is deemed that his actions infringe on the rights of others, his vote should not be allowed to cancel the vote of his victims or any other member of society.

We disagree. That doesn't mean I'm "driving the wrong end of the nail," it just means we place different weight on certain values. My opinions are offered in good faith (most of the time, on rare occasion I am contrary in the hopes of making people critically evaluate their positions) and are almost always based in reason and logic. I simply don't believe that it's moral to deny some people basic rights that I enjoy. Sorry you don't see it that way. To be honest, I sometimes have to remind myself that your positions (and a few others on this board) are thoughtfully held and not just the reactionary default that they sometimes reflect.

I like to think we're mostly all above the level of the folks who are Republicans because daddy was a Republican, are Democrats because daddy was a Democrat, or otherwise hold opinions only because that's what they grew up with.

Anyway, back closer to the topic: you're right, it wouldn't be that easy, although tossing people in SuperMax for the remainder of their sentence might be some deterrent to violent behavior on the inside. Combine that with a nice carrot and we might have something.

Surely we can agree that the current situation is untenable. Violence in prison is increasing recidivism rates which is driving the cost of the criminal justice system to an unsustainable level.

[Gaspar]

Anyway, back closer to the topic: you're right, it wouldn't be that easy, although tossing people in SuperMax for the remainder of their sentence might be some deterrent to violent behavior on the inside. Combine that with a nice carrot and we might have something.

Surely we can agree that the current situation is untenable. Violence in prison is increasing recidivism rates which is driving the cost of the criminal justice system to an unsustainable level.

On this new subject we are in total agreement.

America needs fewer laws, not more prisons. – James Bovard

[nathanm]

On this new subject we are in total agreement.

America needs fewer laws, not more prisons. – James Bovard

I'm glad to see that we do indeed agree on something. 

[custosnox]

I too will chime in agreement on this.  As the old saying goes, insanity is repeating the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.  Our criminal justice system is trully insane.