Race Relations in Tulsa

[Blair]

My family and I may be relocating to the Tulsa area and I was wondering how race relations are.  We are moving from the deep South and I know how things are here.  Do whites and blacks co-mingle amicably?  What are some of the problems my teenaged sons may face?  What are the best most affordable neighborhoods to consider?

[Conan71]

Whew, this can be a charged question.

From my perspective, I don't see there being racial tension nor the overt racism that you still see in parts of the south.  There's people who will disagree with me on this, and there are some on this forum who seem to think if you are against Obama's policies that makes you a racist.  I see whites, hispanics, and blacks as getting along well here and peacefully coexisting. 

We have a couple of black city councilors who occasionally charge that blacks are under-served by the city, and perhaps they are though I don't think it's intentional based on race, I believe it's more of a geographical issue.  There was a settlement with the black officer's coalition of the Tulsa PD which alleged racist policies in promotions.  On a different note, I'm not aware of serious pattern of hate crime problems in Tulsa.  I tend to get along with most everyone so I may have more of a Pollyanna-like paradigm when it comes to racial and ethnic issues.

There are some very affordable neighborhoods in the area of Expo Square (21st & Yale) which are stable and well kept as well as other parts of the city.  What is your budget and what's your rough square footage requirement?  Tulsa typically ranks amongst the cheapest housing and cost of living costs in the country.

Oh and welcome to the forum, Blair!

[TURobY]

Growing up here (and attending East Central), I never saw much racial tension. I asked my sister (who is still in high school) and she said nobody even really thinks about race anymore. As for adults, I think most people here care less about color of skin, and more about individual/group attitude and violence in an area (whether is it a heavily black, hispanic, or white area of town).

As for a combination of affordable and safe, I would recommend the area around TU. The only area around TU that I'd avoid right now is the area to the immediate west of it. There are some run down apartments that haven't been properly maintained in that area.

[custosnox]

Whew, this can be a charged question.

That is why I have been hesitant to respond to it.  

Overall the racial atmosphere is pretty calm and no real sense of overt racism.  While there are some that are pretty adoment on keeping hate alive, these are by far the minority, and exist on all sides.  There is some co-mingling, though cultural differances tend to cut this down quiet a bit.  

As far as affordable living, that can be found in just about every area of tulsa.  There are some area's that would be best to be avoided, it really depends on what you are looking for when it comes to giving recomendations on living area's.  Give us some idea's of what kind of community you prefer and I'm sure you can get full reviews of the best places in Tulsa that would meet your needs from folks on the board.

Welcome to Tulsa Now, and hopefully soon to Tulsa.

[RecycleMichael]

We don't care about your skin color. What brand of politics are ya?

If you are a liberal, welcome to Tulsa. We are a minority and need you and all your liberal friends to move here. If you are conservative, you should have no problems finding friends here.

[sgrizzle]

My family and I may be relocating to the Tulsa area and I was wondering how race relations are.  We are moving from the deep South and I know how things are here.  Do whites and blacks co-mingle amicably?  What are some of the problems my teenaged sons may face?  What are the best most affordable neighborhoods to consider?

I have in-laws who live in a town down south where people of different skin types don't get along as a general rule. Blacks don't like being around whites and vice-versa. When they visit Tulsa one of the things they always notice is they don't feel any of that here.

That being said, every town will have it's degree of rascists on both side but in Tulsa it is MUCH less than in the south.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Which part of the south are you moving from?
And are you white, black, or other?

Rhetorical questions - but the answers influence your past experience and will likely influence your future experience here.  Tulsa has come a LONG way from the 1921 race riot.  We have even come a long way from 1970.  My high school was one of the first in south Tulsa in the late '60s for a black kid to attend.  For the two years he was there, he was pretty much an "outcast", so he hung around with our group a lot - also outcasts.

Feels much better these days, but the whole situation appears to be affected from time to time by gangs (white, black, and hispanic) and drugs.

There is plenty of racism around, but it seldom seems to impinge on most people's consciousness.  They just don't think about it one way or the other.  Which is probably good.  Means on one hand, people not really aware of it happening, but on the other they aren't thinking about it enough to actively participate in it.  And if you are black and move into an upper class, mostly white neighborhood, you won't have crosses burned in your yard, and ARE likely to make friends.

As for costs, again depending - if rural Mississippi, this may be a bad shock for higher living costs, but Miami, Richmond, Atlanta, etc you will be astounded at how much house you can buy for the same money as there.  Modest 3 bed, two bath ranch in those places will get you a McMansion here.

Tulsa area - northeast Oklahoma in general - is a great place to live.  (Just watch out for the RWRE!!)

[Rico]

conan 71 >"I believe it's more of a geographical issue."
Change geographic to demographic and this fits.
Tulsa, since oil left is very much about size of one's wallet. Back when oil was still King there was far less discrimination.

conan 71 >"As for a combination of affordable and safe, I would recommend the area around TU. The only area around TU that I'd avoid right now is the area to the immediate west of it. There are some run down apartments that haven't been properly maintained in that area."
Once again, about money. TU owns most of or has an option on the vast majority of land surrounding it. Their [tuition could not afford any sort of an incident. They have their own security, and when added to the Tulsa Police Dept., it does make for a quite controlled environment.

custosnonox >"Overall the racial atmosphere is pretty calm and no real sense of overt racism.  While there are some that are pretty adoment on keeping hate alive, these are by far the minority, and exist on all sides.  There is some co-mingling, though cultural differances tend to cut this down quiet a bit. "
More or less a true assessment.
I spent a few years in Birmingham, Baton Rouge, Mobile, etc.
I also was in California for the "Watts Riot" and the "Crenshaw / South Central Riot"

I do not like saying this next statement.. The overall vibe, in parts of Tulsa, is very much akin to the atmosphere prior to those two incidents.

All that being said. Anywhere in the USA is going to have an element of transition about it. It is indicative of the recent events which are shaping our country at present.

[RecycleMichael]

The overall vibe, in parts of Tulsa, is very much akin to the atmosphere prior to those two incidents.

I completely disagree. We just must run in different circles.

[guido911]

I completely disagree. We just must run in different circles.

Me too. I have no idea what Rico is basing that assessment on. Welcome to TNF Blair.

[Rico]

Me too. I have no idea what Rico is basing that assessment on. Welcome to TNF Blair.

OK I will Explain what I wrote. guido, I would think you are a little young to catch the similarities between then and now. I am not trying to be a reincarnated fotd madman with the analogy.

Allow me to demonstrate.

Los Angeles 1992, the unemployment rate was at an extremely high rate among minorities. much like Tulsa at present

The black community, L.A. 1992,  had a leader that was very well liked by both the white and black citizens.  (Tom Bradley; now it would be Barrack Obama) That leader was felt to be ignoring their pain and selling them out. Folks started calling him an "Uncle Tom". 
Not saying they now necessarily feel Obama is selling them out but in Tulsa many feel their needs are being ignored by the top City Official,. That leads to disparity and hopelessness... Much like the sentiment in L.A. 

The Los Angeles Police Department was running very poorly at that time due to a fellow named Darryl Gates. This is not to say that the Tulsa Police are performing poorly but they are "hamstrung" by the political agenda of City leadership at present.
They have lost much "street cred" by such a large number being, basically, told they are unneeded.
Their "cheaper equivalents ? counterparts? whatever they are being referred to as by team Bartlett"  are being issued threats by a white Motorcycle gang for kicking a door down and shooting someone that as far as I can tell could have been dealt with far better than what they chose to do.
That incident struck me as being similar to Darryl Gates and his "modified tank" battering ram that was used to enter drug houses under the cover of "No Knock Warrants". Several innocent people died because of their location and the political impact of a successful drug bust. Eventually Gates was stopped by a court issued "cease and desist".
The "vibe" then is similar to Tulsa 2010

Rodney King had about as much to do with the Crenshaw/South Central incident as I did.
King was a spark. If it had not been Rodney King and Policemen being exonerated it would have been something else.
The overall mood, vibe, circumstance, felt quite similar.

There are good relations between many people of color and people that are of a different color in Tulsa.

I was just pointing to a feeling that I have witnessed before, being similar in nature, to the feelings being expressed now.

[guido911]

OK I will Explain what I wrote. guido, I would think you are a little young to catch the similarities between then and now. I am not trying to be a reincarnated fotd madman with the analogy.

Allow me to demonstrate.

Los Angeles 1992, the unemployment rate was at an extremely high rate among minorities. much like Tulsa at present

The black community, L.A. 1992,  had a leader that was very well liked by both the white and black citizens.  (Tom Bradley; now it would be Barrack Obama) That leader was felt to be ignoring their pain and selling them out. Folks started calling him an "Uncle Tom". 
Not saying they now necessarily feel Obama is selling them out but in Tulsa many feel their needs are being ignored by the top City Official,. That leads to disparity and hopelessness... Much like the sentiment in L.A. 

The Los Angeles Police Department was running very poorly at that time due to a fellow named Darryl Gates. This is not to say that the Tulsa Police are performing poorly but they are "hamstrung" by the political agenda of City leadership at present.
They have lost much "street cred" by such a large number being, basically, told they are unneeded.
Their "cheaper equivalents ? counterparts? whatever they are being referred to as by team Bartlett"  are being issued threats by a white Motorcycle gang for kicking a door down and shooting someone that as far as I can tell could have been dealt with far better than what they chose to do.
That incident struck me as being similar to Darryl Gates and his "modified tank" battering ram that was used to enter drug houses under the cover of "No Knock Warrants". Several innocent people died because of their location and the political impact of a successful drug bust. Eventually Gates was stopped by a court issued "cease and desist".
The "vibe" then is similar to Tulsa 2010

Rodney King had about as much to do with the Crenshaw/South Central incident as I did.
King was a spark. If it had not been Rodney King and Policemen being exonerated it would have been something else.
The overall mood, vibe, circumstance, felt quite similar.

There are good relations between many people of color and people that are of a different color in Tulsa.

I was just pointing to a feeling that I have witnessed before, being similar in nature, to the feelings being expressed now.

While I appreciate your explanation, I simply cannot accept a comparison between LA and Tulsa.  Far too many differences.

[Renaissance]

My family and I may be relocating to the Tulsa area and I was wondering how race relations are.  We are moving from the deep South and I know how things are here.  Do whites and blacks co-mingle amicably?  What are some of the problems my teenaged sons may face?  What are the best most affordable neighborhoods to consider?

I can speak on the question, but not from the perspective of the deep South.  Let's start with this: blacks and whites co-mingle in Tulsa much more than in cities such as Chicago and Dallas.  I can say this because I've spent at least three years in each of those cities, and when I return to Tulsa there is a marked increase in the diversity I see.

I attended Tulsa's public magnet school in north Tulsa in the mid-90s.  It was basically split 50-50.  The races tended to separate themselves socially but tension among the students was, for the most part, non-existent. 

But, the neighborhood racial separation in Tulsa is probably just as bad as anywhere.  Just like other cities, Tulsa has a sordid racial past and there are still wounds.  But as for your sons--I'd say just make sure they aren't gathering with crowds in parks or parking lots after dark, and they'll avoid any trouble.  That's where it to be found back when I was a teenager, anyway.

[custosnox]

Something that just came to mind as I was thinking about it is my neighbors.  I have a white family to one side (one of our posters family in fact), a mixed couple on the other side (black male, white female), a hispanic couple past them and an asian family across the street.  While none of us spend a lot of time really hanging out, I'm friendly with the neighbors on either side, helping each other out here and there and chatting from time to time, and everyone in the area is cordial with one another.  In general race doesn't even seem to come into play, other then a few cultural differances (i.e. horrible polka type music from the hispanics, huge family living at the asians house).  This is usually the tone that I encounter around town.  Of course there are some area's that are very racially singular and tend to cause problems with "outsiders", but not a whole lot of those.

[dbacks fan]

When I was living in Tulsa (born and raised) and asked if I had a problem dating outside my race, I always responded that "I think my cats would object to me being involved with canines".