Kayaking in Tulsa

[SXSW]

I am looking at buying a kayak to take on the Arkansas and maybe to other area rivers and lakes.  For those that kayak on the Arkansas where is the best place and at what level is it safe?  Where are some other local places to kayak?

[Conan71]

Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM.  Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club.  It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store.  The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18.  You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal.  May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson).  They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.

www.tulsarowingclub.org

http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html

[SXSW]

Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM.  Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club.  It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store.  The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18.  You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal.  May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson).  They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.

www.tulsarowingclub.org

http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html

Thanks I will look into this.  I know you row, are you on a team or just recreational?  That may be a better fit.  Looking for an interesting alternative to my normal biking/weights workout routine.

[waterboy]

Waterboy should see your message, but you might send him a PM.  Different sport and you face the other direction, but consider this before you take the plunge and buy a kayak: Take the learn to row class at Tulsa Rowing Club.  It's a 2 week, six session class (approx 12 hours and at least 8 are on the water) and you will get a better feel for whether or not you really want to get out on the Arkansas or not without making a large purchase of something you will have to have adequate space to store.  The cost is $125 and it's open to anyone over 18.  You do need to get your swimming certification at the local Y, not a big deal.  May session starts this evening at 6pm at the TRC boathouse at the Riverwest Festival Parking lot. (23rd & Jackson).  They also have June, July, & Aug. LTR's.

www.tulsarowingclub.org

http://www.tulsarowingclub.org/learn_to_row.html

That's good advice. The Arkansas has at least 5 different personalities as it travels from the Dam downstream to Bixby/Broken Arrow. The rowing crew has a location that is heavy on inner city ambiance (skyline, Elwoods, runners, bikers etc) but also heavier on pollution since the Zink dam backs up inner city runoff.

Otherwise, it depends on wht you want to get out of it. A good workout can be had just kayaking upstream from the boat ramp near the rowing crew up to the 11th street bridge and back at normal levels (3-4 ft depth, 5500 cfs). I personally have never kayaked when the water was over 45000cfs. What's the use? You just hold on and steer. A good kayak can be expensive too as well as storage for the year. PM me if you would like to talk more.

[Conan71]

Thanks I will look into this.  I know you row, are you on a team or just recreational?  That may be a better fit.  Looking for an interesting alternative to my normal biking/weights workout routine.

I've raced with TRC Masters the last two seasons.  I had shoulder surgery in January and am not back to 100% yet.  As well due to some business concerns down the turnpike, I'll likely end up rowing with Chesapeake in the fall season.

There's room for racing or recreational rowers within the framework of the club.  You will also learn about river safety, corresponding water levels with current, etc.  What Waterboy said about the 45,000 cfs is correct.  He's got a lot of experience on the Arkansas and is probably the single best reference you could ask about the river from dam to dam (and probably further south.

I've got an obvious bias recommending TRC, I just figured the buy-in is a lot less for a two week course if someone would like to explore.  I can tell you rowing is a better over-all workout than biking (and I'm a very avid cyclist) as it utilizes every muscle group, it's also better (at least for me) at keeping weight off. 

If you are up for joining up with the Weds. night ride group this week (or any other week) just let me know as well.

[SXSW]

Looks like a kayaker went over the dam...

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321

Question for those that row/kayak on Zink Lake, is the current strong enough at current levels to push a boat over even if you are a considerable distance from the dam?

[Conan71]

Looks like a kayaker went over the dam...

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12532321

Question for those that row/kayak on Zink Lake, is the current strong enough at current levels to push a boat over even if you are a considerable distance from the dam?

That explains the fire trucks running down W. 41st St. this morning.  I hope to hell it's not a guy I talked to in the boathouse parking lot Friday night.  I was finishing up a bike ride and encountered a guy pulling out a recreational kayak small enough to fit in his Camaro.  I told him I didn't want to get up in his business, but that he needed to be aware the river was flowing about 50,000 fpm if he didn't have much experience with the river and that he could be on top of the LWD in no time.  The guy claimed to have been on the river "a half dozen times" asked me several questions about the rowing club, commented on my road bike, and then continued about his business.  Last I saw of that guy he was paddling up-stream and making little to no progress.  I'm hoping he didn't return and it ended badly for him.

I was just heading out for a bike ride when one of the charter members of TRC pulled up yesterday.  We chatted briefly and the actual topic of going over the LWD came up (mutual musing about the high flow rate).  He said at this flow level, you'd barely notice it as you went over, that it'd be a far worse ride if it were 20 or 30,000 cfs due to the elevation drop over the dam and the turbulence that creates.  Personally, I'd care less to find out. 

Your question is slightly confusing to me.  If you are strong enough to make headway, no problem.  If you simply stop and float, you will eventually wind up over the dam.  One thing for certain, if that should ever happen, never leave your craft even if it's over-turned, use it for floatation and swim like hell to the closest bank.  For a newbie, I wouldn't get out when the level is higher than 5 ft. on the 11th St. stream gage.  The river moves along pretty rapidly even at that.  I don't have near the lifetime experience that Waterboy does on the river but I've spent more time on it than the average Tulsan.  I'd tend to be a little more conservative than sorry.

Here's the USGS link to the river flow and level.  TRC uses the 11th street bridge stream level as their guide, rather than CFS, though they are relevant figures.  Why that is, I've never been quite clear, my best guess is most likely because there are visual cues you can see from the riverbank with reference points like the tern islands or dock level on the water using level as a go-no go guide.  CFS is a total guess unless you get on the web site. 

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv/?site_no=07164500&

[SXSW]

If I remember correctly, the point of the Sand Springs dam being larger and holding more water was to control the ability to release the amount of water needed to fill the river.  Would Zink Dam even still be needed in this case, especially if there is a Jenks dam downstream?

[Conan71]

Tulsa World is reporting the kayaker has died.

[Hoss]

That explains the fire trucks running down W. 41st St. this morning.  I hope to hell it's not a guy I talked to in the boathouse parking lot Friday night.  I was finishing up a bike ride and encountered a guy pulling out a recreational kayak small enough to fit in his Camaro.  I told him I didn't want to get up in his business, but that he needed to be aware the river was flowing about 50,000 fpm if he didn't have much experience with the river and that he could be on top of the LWD in no time.  The guy claimed to have been on the river "a half dozen times" asked me several questions about the rowing club, commented on my road bike, and then continued about his business.  Last I saw of that guy he was paddling up-stream and making little to no progress.  I'm hoping he didn't return and it ended badly for him.

I was just heading out for a bike ride when one of the charter members of TRC pulled up yesterday.  We chatted briefly and the actual topic of going over the LWD came up (mutual musing about the high flow rate).  He said at this flow level, you'd barely notice it as you went over, that it'd be a far worse ride if it were 20 or 30,000 cfs due to the elevation drop over the dam and the turbulence that creates.  Personally, I'd care less to find out. 

Your question is slightly confusing to me.  If you are strong enough to make headway, no problem.  If you simply stop and float, you will eventually wind up over the dam.  One thing for certain, if that should ever happen, never leave your craft even if it's over-turned, use it for floatation and swim like hell to the closest bank.  For a newbie, I wouldn't get out when the level is higher than 5 ft. on the 11th St. stream gage.  The river moves along pretty rapidly even at that.  I don't have near the lifetime experience that Waterboy does on the river but I've spent more time on it than the average Tulsan.  I'd tend to be a little more conservative than sorry.

Here's the USGS link to the river flow and level.  TRC uses the 11th street bridge stream level as their guide, rather than CFS, though they are relevant figures.  Why that is, I've never been quite clear, my best guess is most likely because there are visual cues you can see from the riverbank with reference points like the tern islands or dock level on the water using level as a go-no go guide.  CFS is a total guess unless you get on the web site. 

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv/?site_no=07164500&

I had my portable scanner and heard most of this as it was going on.  It was a little confusing to know exactly what was happening from the 30 minutes or so of conversations I heard.  I heard something about that they thought the victim had a life jacket but no helmet.  Not sure but that's what I thought I heard.  It was pretty frantic sounding for about 20 minutes or so.

[Conan71]

Curious to know if there is really any reason for three units plus a fire chief's truck to dispatch to the west bank on this?  They apparently launched the rescue boat from the east side below the dam, with one victim, why do we need three or four trucks, plus an EMSA there on the west bank to greet them?  Has anyone else ever questioned the number of emergency responders standing around with thumbs in their pocket on traffic accidents and incidents like this?

[Hoss]

Curious to know if there is really any reason for three units plus a fire chief's truck to dispatch to the west bank on this?  They apparently launched the rescue boat from the east side below the dam, with one victim, why do we need three or four trucks, plus an EMSA there on the west bank to greet them?  Has anyone else ever questioned the number of emergency responders standing around with thumbs in their pocket on traffic accidents and incidents like this?

Honestly, while listening to the scanner, it almost sounded like the dispatcher didn't really know how to handle it.  Someone called (car 18) enroute and asked if he wanted him on the west bank; he hesitated and said no.  I remember hearing at least two units on the west bank, and they deployed a boat from the 65th street ramp (?) which I'm guessing is right here

[Conan71]

Honestly, while listening to the scanner, it almost sounded like the dispatcher didn't really know how to handle it.  Someone called (car 18) enroute and asked if he wanted him on the west bank; he hesitated and said no.  I remember hearing at least two units on the west bank, and they deployed a boat from the 65th street ramp (?) which I'm guessing is right here

I could swear you could see the west side of the ped bridge and LWD as if shot from the east bank in one of the online photos.  I could be confused on the number of units.  A pumper ran past hot at one point this morning, then maybe 30-45 minutes later, a pumper, a fire & rescue unit, follwed by a TPD pick up (I'm assuming a captain or chief vehicle) a few minutes later.  The first pumper call may have been un-related.  I didn't pay attention to the time and only put two and two together when I saw SXSW's post.

[waterboy]

Wow!. That is so sad.

There is no way a kayaker paddles upstream on this river when it exceeds 10,000cfs which as Conan notes is around 5ft at the 11th street guage. I have tried and you will tire quickly. Actually, the short, squat trick kayaks are even harder to take upstream as you have more resistance. There is a relationship between length and girth, which is why the rowing shells move so fast.

Once you lose your momentum, simply point the boat at an angle and paddle for shore but at that cfs you better make that decision before you pass under the 21st street bridge going downstream.

Its true the lowater dam is mostly under water at this level but, the turbulence is much more than you can see. Just the turbulence under the bridge around the piers shakes you like a wet dog. You add in that he was probably physically spent and panicky and you could easily be jolted over. Once that happens where he was, ain't nothing good to look forward to. Head injury, mouthfuls of water and disorientation.

Not surprised about the rescue squads. Everyone wants part of the action, if nothing else to justify their existence. Truth is they mostly rescue bodies. Rescue is a huge issue for development of the river. My question is whether the safety cables are still in place upstream of the dam? If so, he might have tried to grab it and got thrown around.

Terribly sad and unnecessary.

[waterboy]

If I remember correctly, the point of the Sand Springs dam being larger and holding more water was to control the ability to release the amount of water needed to fill the river.  Would Zink Dam even still be needed in this case, especially if there is a Jenks dam downstream?

The Jenks dam will only back up water less than 4 miles. In fact, I think it was closer to 2.5. The Sand Springs dam will back up closer to 8 miles which is a lot of water. When the spring rains come they will all be full.

It would be a shame if this leads to negative impulses, like closing the river to public use. There needs to be more education about the river and its nature so that folks don't take it lightly. That is why I offer my trips. To introduce people to their own river but understand that its like a wild animal. It may be trained but never totally domesticated.