Brady Flats

[TheArtist]

I love seeing parking lots disappear.  I am far from a parking nazi that infests the comment section of the TW (I absolutely can't stand those people), but I am a bit curious about parking in that part of the Brady district.  That entire corner is being filled in with two apartments and a hotel with no parking lots nearby (good thing).  Are either of the apartments or the hotel building a parking structure?  The reality is living in this town, even downtown, will require a car, and the hotel will definitely need parking.  Just curious.

Not sure about the parking.  I am actually a "NO MORE PARKING!" nazi lol, and hope that we implement good mass transit instead. However, I do recognize that we are in the akward, not enough density to make things really pedestrian/mass transit friendly phase in which one really wants to put in parking.  I just don't want "fake" density.  I have seen cities, like Dallas, have areas that at first glance look pedestrian/mass transit friendly, but are really "facades" wrapped around parking. They have real apartments and shops wrapped around big blocks, but the entire middle of the block, instead of having more density, enough density to make the area truly work,,, is filled with a parking garage that saps potential, adds to the car culture aka, takes away the pedestrians from the street and thus the businesses that would otherwise pop up along the streets to meet their everyday needs.  Its fake and it doesn't work.  And it adds a lot of cost. Those people have to pay for that parking, and for the transit. I think in Portland they have actually banned the construction of more parking garages. If we really want this to work, if we are truly honest with ourselves about wanting a pedestrian friendly downtown area that has affordable, timely, mass transit,,, we are gonna have to make some choices that may seem tough at first, but I bet you would be amazed at how well it would work out, how creative people would be, and suprised at the positive results (zipcar rental places for instance).  Parking underneath apartments is perhaps an allowable exception. But not apartments wrapped around a big gaping hole right in the middle of a pedestrian friendly/mass transit zone. Another exception can be an area/street that is not going to be pedestrian friendly and or will not have mass transit nearby, have some parking there.  

[SXSW]

I love seeing parking lots disappear.  I am far from a parking nazi that infests the comment section of the TW (I absolutely can't stand those people), but I am a bit curious about parking in that part of the Brady district.  That entire corner is being filled in with two apartments and a hotel with no parking lots nearby (good thing).  Are either of the apartments or the hotel building a parking structure?  The reality is living in this town, even downtown, will require a car, and the hotel will definitely need parking.  Just curious.

There is lots of street parking in Brady, and plenty of parking in the lots next to the tracks (and in the garages along 1st Street after business hours).  

From the TW article it looks like the design changed...I like the brick warehouse look but would like to see more contemporary design like the original proposal

[Townsend]

I love seeing parking lots disappear.  I am far from a parking nazi that infests the comment section of the TW (I absolutely can't stand those people), but I am a bit curious about parking in that part of the Brady district.  That entire corner is being filled in with two apartments and a hotel with no parking lots nearby (good thing).  Are either of the apartments or the hotel building a parking structure?  The reality is living in this town, even downtown, will require a car, and the hotel will definitely need parking.  Just curious.

I was told the lofts built next to Hey Mambo are to have underground parking.  That was from a business owner in the area.

[Townsend]

Not to be a negative Nelly but I heard the sound of screeching breaks when I read that.

Developer MetroPlains LLC of St. Paul, Minn., is in negotiations with the Tulsa Development Authority to purchase a quarter-acre for the project

[Renaissance]

Not sure about the parking.  I am actually a "NO MORE PARKING!" nazi lol, and hope that we implement good mass transit instead. However, I do recognize that we are in the akward, not enough density to make things really pedestrian/mass transit friendly phase in which one really wants to put in parking.  I just don't want "fake" density.  I have seen cities, like Dallas, have areas that at first glance look pedestrian/mass transit friendly, but are really "facades" wrapped around parking. They have real apartments and shops wrapped around big blocks, but the entire middle of the block, instead of having more density, enough density to make the area truly work,,, is filled with a parking garage that saps potential, adds to the car culture aka, takes away the pedestrians from the street and thus the businesses that would otherwise pop up along the streets to meet their everyday needs.  Its fake and it doesn't work.  And it adds a lot of cost. Those people have to pay for that parking, and for the transit. I think in Portland they have actually banned the construction of more parking garages. If we really want this to work, if we are truly honest with ourselves about wanting a pedestrian friendly downtown area that has affordable, timely, mass transit,,, we are gonna have to make some choices that may seem tough at first, but I bet you would be amazed at how well it would work out, how creative people would be, and suprised at the positive results (zipcar rental places for instance).  Parking underneath apartments is perhaps an allowable exception. But not apartments wrapped around a big gaping hole right in the middle of a pedestrian friendly/mass transit zone. Another exception can be an area/street that is not going to be pedestrian friendly and or will not have mass transit nearby, have some parking there.  

I understand your stance but it's not realistic and it is probably counterproductive.  When you build 120 residential units where there were none, you're going to need at least 120 parking spaces, plus room for visitors.  That's just reality.  You have to put them somewhere or people won't move in.  Otherwise you create a massive parking problem where folks have nowhere to put their cars and eventually give up.

Some compromise is necessary and I think the "Texas donut" (street-addressed structures with parking in the center) is an admirable attempt.  The alternatives are either University of Tulsa-style suburban apartments, with small building clusters sprouting throughout a continuous parking area, or else one large parking lot/deck next to one large structure, like most midtown/South Tulsa office towers.  

[DTowner]

I like the new brick design much better - I think it is a much better fit with existing buildings in the area.

I thought it interesting that today's T.World article mentions MetroPlains has received $550K from the City and Community Action Project of Tulsa, and they are looking for more public money.  Reading between the lines, it sounds like this project might be contingent on receiving additional public moneys.  If so, this project may need to go to the column of "I'll believe it when I see dirt being turned."  Also, does the receipt of public money mean there will be some portion of the apartments reserved for lower income or subsidized housing?

As for parking, I agree with Floyd - a car is simply a necessary part of life even in downtown Tulsa and will remain so for the foreseeable future.  Any viable downtwon housing project has to provide for parking.

[DowntownDan]

It's just not practical in this town to expect people to not have a car, even in what might qualify as a pedestrian neighborhood downtown.  There really aren't any major cities in this part of the country that have truly livable self contained pedestrian communities or public transportation that can get you reliably where you want to go in a short period of time.  NYC subways can do that.  Tulsa Transit cannot.  It might take over an hour to get you someplace you could drive to in 10 minutes.  I know this for a fact.  I live a 5 minute drive from my office downtown and when my car was in the shop, I looked into Tulsa Transit.  The routes run very infrequently and take long detours to get anywhere.  It's just the nature of a sprawled community with very little demand for public transportation.

That being said, even if you could find a bunch of downtown residents willing to live in the apartments without cars, you still need parking for the hotel.  It would absolutely kill business to tell people that to stay at their hotel, you may have to park 4 or 5 blocks away.  That is not too much to ask to park and walk to the BOK Center or the ballpark, but to ask hotel visitors to do that is just bad business.  The hotel will need parking in the immediate vicinity.  I suppose they could offer free valet and park farther away.  That would be the best scenario, if they can justify swallowing the price of valet.

[SXSW]

That being said, even if you could find a bunch of downtown residents willing to live in the apartments without cars, you still need parking for the hotel.  It would absolutely kill business to tell people that to stay at their hotel, you may have to park 4 or 5 blocks away.  That is not too much to ask to park and walk to the BOK Center or the ballpark, but to ask hotel visitors to do that is just bad business.  The hotel will need parking in the immediate vicinity.  I suppose they could offer free valet and park farther away.  That would be the best scenario, if they can justify swallowing the price of valet.

I think the Courtyard Marriott on Boston does that.  That is how lots of urban hotels handle their parking.  You park and can get it when you need it through the valet.  Lots of higher end condo towers offer the same service.

[ZYX]

I like the new brick much better. I personally never liked the old design. I thought it looked like the Hyatt(CrownePlaza) downtown. I think this will fit in much better.

I have not heard for this development, but I know the new hotel will have parking in the back of the building, probably something similar to what TheArtist was talking about. Also, the Tribune II project will share a new parking garage with the original Tribune.

[joiei]

That being said, even if you could find a bunch of downtown residents willing to live in the apartments without cars, you still need parking for the hotel.  It would absolutely kill business to tell people that to stay at their hotel, you may have to park 4 or 5 blocks away.  That is not too much to ask to park and walk to the BOK Center or the ballpark, but to ask hotel visitors to do that is just bad business.  The hotel will need parking in the immediate vicinity.  I suppose they could offer free valet and park farther away.  That would be the best scenario, if they can justify swallowing the price of valet.

When I stay in downtown Dallas or New Orleans or Miami or Kansas City or Chicago, I have to pay for the valet at the hotel.   And that can run to $24 or better per night just to park the car.   When this happens I don't care where they park the car.   Unless there is  on premise parking I know I will have to valet the car and accept it.   The only place I have seen free valet parking lately is at the casinos.   Is valet parking at the newly reflagged Hyatt free?   When it was the Crown, you had to get a stamp or otherwise you paid.   

[ZYX]

There are quite a few negative comments on the TW. [gag] T-town will never get any better if we don't build projects like this. I love Tulsa and believe that we have an already great city that is improving by the day. This view does not seemed to be shared by many of the posters on the Tulsa World.

[Red Arrow]

When I stay in downtown Dallas or New Orleans or Miami or Kansas City or Chicago, I have to pay for the valet at the hotel.   And that can run to $24 or better per night just to park the car.   When this happens I don't care where they park the car.   Unless there is  on premise parking I know I will have to valet the car and accept it.   The only place I have seen free valet parking lately is at the casinos.   Is valet parking at the newly reflagged Hyatt free?   When it was the Crown, you had to get a stamp or otherwise you paid.   

When I go on a business trip, valet parking may be part of the expense. The company says go, I go.   If I am on a personal trip, it figures into the cost of the trip and may put the cost into the no-go category.

[ZYX]

I was told the lofts built next to Hey Mambo are to have underground parking.  That was from a business owner in the area.

What lofts are being built next to Hey Mambo? Would love to add another project to the downtown list!

[ZYX]

Nevermind, that would obviously be these.

Wow, I'm thinks I pretty smart.