Let's Bailout the Teachers!!!

[Gaspar]

That's always been your problem around here Gas. Your world is small and has few choices and you're too self assured about simple solutions. I would point out, it's NOT about you and your consistently simple, small view of the world. But I doubt you'll ever figure that out.

Conan is the voice of reason in this conversation.

You are correct.  I do tend to lean towards simple solutions.  You are also correct in that there are times when common sense solutions do not work.  This is not one of those times.

When you boil down the problems with education, you must consider the following:

1.   The education of the kids is the priority, not the unions or job security for the educators.
2.   The US spends on average around $9,000 per child a year on education.
3.   You can finance a damn good education for that amount.

So where is the complexity that I am missing?

I appreciate your passion and your point of view.

[RecycleMichael]

I like the idea of rewarding the best teachers with the highest pay, rather than by how long they've been there. 

I want to tell you about my daughter's teacher. We are active parents and my wife is a home room mom (and on the school board). We know our children's teachers and in fact, often socialize with them outside of the school.

We have not always been satisfied with our kid's teachers, but the school system has generally given us good teachers. When we have had a problem, we have always found a willing ear with the principal and the problems have generally been settled well.

This year my daughter has a second grade spanish immersion teacher who is spectacular. She keeps us informed of everything going on in the classroom and has our daughter excelling in the fundamentals. We love her and my daughter loves school just because of this lady. I think she is the best teacher either of our children have ever had.

Unfortunately, she is also a first year teacher and has now received her letter saying that unless the legislature can avoid the 10% budget cuts, she will lose her job. The 10% budget cuts now proposed for public education will cause them to lose a great teacher.  

[Conan71]

Unfortunately, she is also a first year teacher and has now received her letter saying that unless the legislature can avoid the 10% budget cuts, she will lose her job. The 10% budget cuts now proposed for public education will cause them to lose a great teacher.  

And that, right there, is the whole problem I've got with tenured education systems.  There has got to be a way to retain bright talent like that.  For every good rookie like her, there's likely a 30 year vet counting down the days to retirement who could care less what your child is learning who will have a job next fall. 

2.   The US spends on average around $9,000 per child a year on education.

The U.S. spends, on average, almost three times that to incarcerate an adult.  Not quite sure what that's saying, but an interesting stat nontheless 

[Cats Cats Cats]

The U.S. spends, on average, almost three times that to incarcerate an adult.  Not quite sure what that's saying, but an interesting stat nontheless 

Make them students?

[Townsend]

"The US spends on average around $9,000 per child a year on education."

The U.S. spends, on average, almost three times that to incarcerate an adult. 

That should be their mantra.

[Conan71]

That should be their mantra.

Great ad campaign either for a state education secretary or attorney general 

[swake]

Great ad campaign either for a state education secretary or attorney general 

That to me is why we really have to change schools drastically. We aren't educating a good portion of our kids, and then they are too likely to end up in Prison.

I really believe that if we can fix schools, especially schools in poor areas, we can lower crime and incarceration rates, have fewer people on welfare (and paying taxes instead), and thus lower taxes as well (that last part is for Guido). Cutting 10% of the teachers from an challenged urban school district is going to do exactly the reverse and cost the taxpayers more money.

It's better for the kids, it's better for the people that might end up in Prison or on welfare and it's better for society at large and the taxpayer.

[Gaspar]

Make them students?

But send them to Private Schools!!!  According to the Department of Education the average cost of private school K-12 is only $6,600 per year.

That would save the state of Oklahoma over $270 billion dollars.

[Conan71]

That to me is why we really have to change schools drastically. We aren't educating a good portion of our kids, and then they are too likely to end up in Prison.

I really believe that if we can fix schools, especially schools in poor areas, we can lower crime and incarceration rates, have fewer people on welfare (and paying taxes instead), and thus lower taxes as well (that last part is for Guido). Cutting 10% of the teachers from an challenged urban school district is going to do exactly the reverse and cost the taxpayers more money.

It's better for the kids, it's better for the people that might end up in Prison or on welfare and it's better for society at large and the taxpayer.

Don't forget the importance of mentorship.  Just curious what the appropriate entity would be to drive such an initiative for classroom volunteers, volunteer guest teachers, volunteer tutors, and other types of proper mentoring programs outside what exists. 

Suggestions anyone? 

[Gaspar]

Don't forget the importance of mentorship.  Just curious what the appropriate entity would be to drive such an initiative for classroom volunteers, volunteer guest teachers, volunteer tutors, and other types of proper mentoring programs outside what exists. 

Suggestions anyone? 

Yes. . .parents have to own their children's education!

Jenks seems to do a very good job of this.  My daughter's teachers have regular signups for parents to participate.  As dads we come and read to the class or talk about what we do for a living, and my wife and the other mothers do the same, as well as participate (as she is today) in "fun days."  Over the course of the year we've gotten to know almost all of the other parents, and I'm happy to say that they are all very participatory. 

The week before last they had a presentation on next year's curriculum and placement, and every parent showed up.  It was standing room only.  I'm happy to see parents that take ownership for the education of their kids.

When education is viewed as the responsibility of the state or its employee, the children lose. 

[swake]

But send them to Private Schools!!!  According to the Department of Education the average cost of private school K-12 is only $6,600 per year.

That would save the state of Oklahoma over $270 billion dollars.

you didn't read my post at all did you?

See Conan? This is why the funding source needs to change. It's a change in perception.

[Conan71]

Yes. . .parents have to own their children's education!

Jenks seems to do a very good job of this.  My daughter's teachers have regular signups for parents to participate.  As dads we come and read to the class or talk about what we do for a living, and my wife and the other mothers do the same, as well as participate (as she is today) in "fun days."  Over the course of the year we've gotten to know almost all of the other parents, and I'm happy to say that they are all very participatory. 

The week before last they had a presentation on next year's curriculum and placement, and every parent showed up.  It was standing room only.  I'm happy to see parents that take ownership for the education of their kids.

When education is viewed as the responsibility of the state or its employee, the children lose. 

Yet one of the reasons I had no problem with my kids moving over to Jenks from a private school.

That still doesn't address what the rest of us can do who have spare time to mentor in areas where parental mentorship and involvement is slim.  I think most of us are well aware of Big Brothers & Sisters and I believe there's ways to mentor via Y programs.

[swake]

Yes. . .parents have to own their children's education!

Jenks seems to do a very good job of this.  My daughter's teachers have regular signups for parents to participate.  As dads we come and read to the class or talk about what we do for a living, and my wife and the other mothers do the same, as well as participate (as she is today) in "fun days."  Over the course of the year we've gotten to know almost all of the other parents, and I'm happy to say that they are all very participatory. 

The week before last they had a presentation on next year's curriculum and placement, and every parent showed up.  It was standing room only.  I'm happy to see parents that take ownership for the education of their kids.

When education is viewed as the responsibility of the state or its employee, the children lose. 

This is why people live in Jenks, it's why I live in Jenks. Not all parents can or care to make that decision.

To consign a child to a crappy education and it's likely life outcome because they have crappy parents is cruel, and fiscally stupid. Penny wise and pound foolish. You should revisit the cost of prison.

[Conan71]

you didn't read my post at all did you?

See Conan? This is why the funding source needs to change. It's a change in perception.

Do you happen to have a figure for how much is being directed at special needs students in Oklahoma?  Just curious.

EDIT: At least when I went to a private Catholic school here in the Tulsa area over 25 years ago, the pay scale there was reputed by one of my teachers who had just come from Hale to be behind TPS's pay schedule by a year, but the working conditions were worth the pay cut, according to him.

I have no idea if that is still the case about lower pay, but I suspect not all private schools can afford to provide quality education and programs for $6600 per year and pay top salaries.  They may well provide better working conditions.

[Gaspar]

This is why people live in Jenks, it's why I live in Jenks. Not all parents can or care to make that decision.

To consign a child to a crappy education and it's likely life outcome because they have crappy parents is cruel, and fiscally stupid. Penny wise and pound foolish. You should revisit the cost of prison.

That's kind of our deal too.  We were living in midtown and planning a family.  Our choice was private schools or send our kids to Jenks.  We wanted the diversity and social experience of a public school, but the quality and parental involvement you find at a private.  After touring several schools, both public and private, we chose Jenks, and moved into the district.  We rented out our old midtown home for a couple of years, and then cut bait.