Bell's new home

[tulsabug]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=322&articleid=20100524_11_0_WAGONE360286

Yea - have fun with that Coweta!

[Hoss]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=322&articleid=20100524_11_0_WAGONE360286

Yea - have fun with that Coweta!

And the legacy of Randi Miller lives on....

[dbacks fan]

First off, IIRC Bell's planned a amusement/water park N/E of 61st and Lynn Lane back in the 80's. If this is true then a move to the new proposed area is not too far from the plans in the 80's.

Second, and I'm partially gathering this from info on the web, with Coweta's boundries it stradles old HWY 51, and is bounded by the Creek TPK, and the Muskogee TPK. This could put the land near a major thoroughfare or highway/limited access highway, and would make it accessable to BA, Jenks, Bixby, Coweta, and to an extent Muskogee, and the immediate area as well with easy highway access to many other places.

Third, the encentives offered by Wagoner County could be offset in the short term by the revenue Bell's could generate. Though not a guarantee, there is the potential. And if what I have read here about the development of SE Tulsa County, there is a potential.

Fourth, unlike the old location at the fairgrounds, where before I could drive I could take the MTTA from near my house to Bell's and back again, I think it will be a draw for people to come to.

Will it have survivabilty? Who knows, but it will have a market in the SE Tulsa County and NW Wagoner County. If it goes through, I wish the Bell family well.

[Conan71]

First off, IIRC Bell's planned a amusement/water park N/E of 61st and Lynn Lane back in the 80's. If this is true then a move to the new proposed area is not too far from the plans in the 80's.

Second, and I'm partially gathering this from info on the web, with Coweta's boundries it stradles old HWY 51, and is bounded by the Creek TPK, and the Muskogee TPK. This could put the land near a major thoroughfare or highway/limited access highway, and would make it accessable to BA, Jenks, Bixby, Coweta, and to an extent Muskogee, and the immediate area as well with easy highway access to many other places.

Third, the encentives offered by Wagoner County could be offset in the short term by the revenue Bell's could generate. Though not a guarantee, there is the potential. And if what I have read here about the development of SE Tulsa County, there is a potential.

Fourth, unlike the old location at the fairgrounds, where before I could drive I could take the MTTA from near my house to Bell's and back again, I think it will be a draw for people to come to.

Will it have survivabilty? Who knows, but it will have a market in the SE Tulsa County and NW Wagoner County. If it goes through, I wish the Bell family well.

You are correct about the water park, actually it was going to be roughly where Bass Pro is now or just on the west side of 161st east ave adjacent to the BA.

I'll be interested to see if all of Wagoner County wants a .25 cent increase to get Bell's.  Personally, I think it could be a cornerstone of development.  Coweta is an emerging school district and Broken Arrow really has no direction to move north of the Arkansas River but east.  If this happens, it will be a brilliant move for the Bell family.  It can be a really great regional draw, especially if they can add a few new coasters and attractions.  They will have far less restrictions on them than what was imposed by the fair board and their favoritism toward the Murphy family and Big Splash.

Keep in mind when Six Flags opened in the DFW area, Arlington was a much smaller town between Dallas and Ft. Worth.  It was out in the "boonies".  As well, Six Flags St. Louis is in a less populated part of St. Louis of to the west.  No I'm not saying Bell's attractions are on par with Six Flags, I'm simply saying that people will go out of their way to go to an amusement park.  If Bell's will simply have a higher, all-inclusive gate admission, I believe they can keep the riff-raff out and make a good living off a new park.

[DolfanBob]

I did not like what the Fairgrounds and or Tulsa County did to the iconic Bells amusement park.
But I live in East B.A. and the Wagoner Taxes are one of the highest in surrounding Counties. That may be what the new Wal-Mart is finding out on 71st by my home.
Even a little tax savings by driving 3 to 4 miles to the West can add up.
It most likely will go thru when the vote happens in July and a 1/4 cent tax on top of what we already pay wont break me by any stretch of the means.
But I already know the mentality of how if they get it this time, What the heck lets just add another 1/4 cent tax for said A B or C project that comes along.
A 50 year lease ? hmm that sounds familiar.

[TURobY]

If Bell's will simply have a higher, all-inclusive gate admission, I believe they can keep the riff-raff out and make a good living off a new park.

They better make sure to keep up maintenance if they are going to charge a higher gate admission. Last time I went to Bell's, paint was peeling, rides had visible rust stains, about 90% of Phantasmagoria's frights weren't working (I rode in complete darkness the entire way until you go outside the first time; the breaking beam, the bus, and the blacklight-mirror hallway were the only things that actually worked). No way am I paying more to attend the same neglected hole that they let the original Bell's become. Hopefully, they'll keep this new park better maintained.

[Conan71]

They better make sure to keep up maintenance if they are going to charge a higher gate admission. Last time I went to Bell's, paint was peeling, rides had visible rust stains, about 90% of Phantasmagoria's frights weren't working (I rode in complete darkness the entire way until you go outside the first time; the breaking beam, the bus, and the blacklight-mirror hallway were the only things that actually worked). No way am I paying more to attend the same neglected hole that they let the original Bell's become. Hopefully, they'll keep this new park better maintained.

Those are all valid observations and if I get a chance to talk to Robbie anytime in the near future, I will point them out.

[sgrizzle]

I have my doubts that they can get the funding to build the thing, even if Wagoner does approve the sales tax.'

Bells was basically a Midway that didn't move and not a real theme park, and even if it was, low-end theme parks is not a great market.

[Conan71]

I have my doubts that they can get the funding to build the thing, even if Wagoner does approve the sales tax.'

Bells was basically a Midway that didn't move and not a real theme park, and even if it was, low-end theme parks is not a great market.

They didn't have much room to grow on and the fair board was stifling attempts at growth.  Why put a whole lot more into the park when they were pretty much down to a year-to-year lease? 

[dbacks fan]

You are correct about the water park, actually it was going to be roughly where Bass Pro is now or just on the west side of 161st east ave adjacent to the BA.

I'll be interested to see if all of Wagoner County wants a .25 cent increase to get Bell's.  Personally, I think it could be a cornerstone of development.  Coweta is an emerging school district and Broken Arrow really has no direction to move north of the Arkansas River but east.  If this happens, it will be a brilliant move for the Bell family.  It can be a really great regional draw, especially if they can add a few new coasters and attractions.  They will have far less restrictions on them than what was imposed by the fair board and their favoritism toward the Murphy family and Big Splash.

Keep in mind when Six Flags opened in the DFW area, Arlington was a much smaller town between Dallas and Ft. Worth.  It was out in the "boonies".  As well, Six Flags St. Louis is in a less populated part of St. Louis of to the west.  No I'm not saying Bell's attractions are on par with Six Flags, I'm simply saying that people will go out of their way to go to an amusement park.  If Bell's will simply have a higher, all-inclusive gate admission, I believe they can keep the riff-raff out and make a good living off a new park.

Yes when Six Flags opened the only things in Arlington were the Bell Helicopter plant on the north side and the GM plant and the Dallas Naval Air Station to the south. The Texas Rangers hadn't been thought of, and the DFW I-30 turnpike I think was still a dream.

Anyway, I think that Bell's better have good financial backing for start up, and I agree with others that they will need to be on top of repairs and maintenance, and have an all inclusive price that fits the rides that they might have. One of the problems that I always thought they had at the fairgrounds was that they were limited in the area they leased. Were they never allowed to expand? And if this was the case, why in later years did the park start to show it's age? I understand the age of the rides in the late 90's, and the wear on them from Oklahomas seasonal weather, but it just seemed to me as others have pointed out that things really aged and showed it in the 90's.

[sgrizzle]

They didn't have much room to grow on and the fair board was stifling attempts at growth.  Why put a whole lot more into the park when they were pretty much down to a year-to-year lease? 

My point is that he's had 3 years to build it out and instead it's just rusted. There is tons of farmland around where he could've built. What wagoner/coweta is offering is a very small part of what it takes to build and run a successful park. It's like saying he hasn't done anything in 3 years because it would cost $20M to build but now coweta is offering him $500k and suddenly he has the other $19.5M.

[dbacks fan]

My point is that he's had 3 years to build it out and instead it's just rusted. There is tons of farmland around where he could've built. What wagoner/coweta is offering is a very small part of what it takes to build and run a successful park. It's like saying he hasn't done anything in 3 years because it would cost $20M to build but now coweta is offering him $500k and suddenly he has the other $19.5M.

Totally agree, and is it just me or does it seem odd that they signed a lease based on a proposed tax that hasn't been voted on? Also I don't think they would have signed the lease if they did not have financial backing.

[custosnox]

And keep in mind that without a real draw, it won't be an anchor for other things to come in.  Yes, this worked with Six Flags, but they had something to offer people to get them to drive several hours to go there (I remember going there as a kid, and we would drive from Hobbs, NM).  Think about the park in OKC, what is it? Frontier City?  Yeah, I think that is the name of it.  I hasn't exactly caused a boom in that area for all of the years of being there.  Then there is Magic Mountain (?) in Arkansas that is pretty much a park in the middle of no where (though I saw a line of cars waiting to get in when I drove by).  SO the question is, if Bell's set's up in Coweta or wherever out that direction, what will they have to offer to bring in more then the locals who are bored?  I always thought of Bell's when it was in town as an occasional distraction, not a destination.

[Conan71]

Totally agree, and is it just me or does it seem odd that they signed a lease based on a proposed tax that hasn't been voted on? Also I don't think they would have signed the lease if they did not have financial backing.

Leases of this nature are a "first right of refusal" type thing.  I doubt any money will be paid in rent until the park is up and running and I'm sure there are all sorts of conditions about the tax passing.

Robbie Bell was clear all along they needed someone to provide land for them.  That's why they went community to community trying to find a place.  You can't build something like that in an urban area without pissing off the neighbors, so I think that's as much an issue as the cost of land is getting a municipal authority involved to help grease the skids of progress.  Supposedly, Bell's had the money in place to build the new roller coaster (cost estimate was in the millions, IIRC) then they were told the lease would not be renewed.

If you ask me, the chances of this actually opening and getting on the ground are less than 50% at this point as I don't have a real feel as to how WC residents are going to react to the sales tax increase.  We will know in relatively short order if they can get the cash to do it and I don't think the Wagoner County Commissioners would stake a sales tax proposal on this if the Bell's couldn't prove the means to make this happen.

In the meantime, here's an oldie but a goodie, the missing Bell's business plan Randi Miller wanted:

[swake]

Funny how the Bell family is will to accept tax money that benefits them directly but are anti all other taxes.

Here's a quote from Sally when she was running for County Commissioner:

"I think the politicians who have allowed our streets to deteriorate are now asking us to trust them," Bell said. "I don't trust them. I did not support the River Tax. I'm like everyone else - I would like to see the river developed. But the way it needs to be developed is for the county to do what it is supposed to do - provide the infrastructure and turn it over to entrepreneurs. You let people establish businesses. If they make it, great. If they don't, the taxpayers don't pay the consequences."

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=440