Section 8 Housing in Tulsa

[SXSW]

The TW has done a series of stories about Section 8 housing in Tulsa.  While not all Section 8 housing is bad it is known for sometimes being rundown and a source of crime.  It is well known that Section 8 can bring down housing values and just the perception can affect people wanting or not wanting to live in neighborhoods near it.  If you look at the maps a good portion of the city is either in Section 8 territory or nearby except for midtown and south Tulsa.  The 61st/71st & Peoria area really stands out.  How does this affect the future of our city with regards to crime and people moving into these neighborhoods?  Do we need government housing reform to ensure slum landlords keep up their properties and demand more from the residents? 





http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100606_11_A1_Zandre962574&allcom=1#commentform

[Conan71]

Contrary to popular belief these days, "Government Reform" isn't the answer to every problem.  Low income housing is a fact of life and a necessity.  You can't simply pick up people in wholesale lots and disperse them throughout a city to keep poverty pockets and quasi-slums from sprouting up.  Landlord upkeep has little, if any bearing on crime, teen pregnancy rates, or even the sun setting in the west every evening.  Crime seems to be more of a problem in lower income areas of the city, but take a look at the crime maps, no single area is completely free from it.  Government can't force people to respect others lives and property.  Those answers are found elsewhere.

Along the lines of landlords taking care of their properties, the project at 21st & Jackson has been undergoing a facelift for a few months.  And I suspect it will change nothing of the lifestyle of the tennants when they are done.

[Townsend]

Government can't force people to respect others lives and property. 

Laws?

[Hoss]

Laws?

I think what he means is that the goobermint can't be proactive (preventive), but it is reactive (punishment).

[Conan71]

Laws?

You can't force people to obey laws either

[Townsend]

You can't force people to obey laws either

I think the laws and punishment for not respecting them is a governments attempt at forcing people to respect other's lives and property.

It's pretty much forced (enforcement) if not followed as an absolute.  I feel forced to follow a speed limit as an example.  There's been many times I wanted to go faster but I didn't because I tend to follow the laws.

It's Monday, maybe my brain is on backup.

Anyway, sorry for the drift.

[Conan71]

I think the laws and punishment for not respecting them is a governments attempt at forcing people to respect other's lives and property.

It's pretty much forced (enforcement) if not followed as an absolute.  I feel forced to follow a speed limit as an example.  There's been many times I wanted to go faster but I didn't because I tend to follow the laws.

It's Monday, maybe my brain is on backup.

Anyway, sorry for the drift.

For people who are wired to respect other's property and lives like you and I, it's not the punishment which has a deterrent effect.  Rather it's something instilled in us a looong time ago.  Granted, fines for speeding and what that does to my insurance does help me keep my speed in check when I'm in a hurry.  I'm sure the threat of prison time has made some people think twice before robbing someone or killing someone, but for most of those who are out there perpetrating those crimes, they simply don't care about the consequences.

[waterboy]

What we need in Tulsa is simply more well paying jobs. More jobs of any sort. When people have good jobs they miraculously start a culture change. The culture is what needs changed.

[sauerkraut]

Section 8 housing has far more neg. effects than helpful or postive effects on a neighborhood or city. It seems South Tulsa is getting full of crime, some guy was just robbed after pulling into his apartment complex in the mid-south Tulsa area. However, North "T" Town still has it's fair share of shootings though.

[Hoss]

Section 8 housing has far more neg. effects than helpful or postive effects on a neighborhood or city. It seems South Tulsa is getting full of crime, some guy was just robbed after pulling into his apartment complex in the mid-south Tulsa area. However, North "T" Town still has it's fair share of shootings though.

Again with the "T" Town crap...jeez.

[YoungTulsan]

I want to rent that one in Maple Ridge (Green dot single family home around 26th & Peoria)

[SXSW]

Interesting that Southern Hills is right next to a high concentration of Section 8 to the north and west, yet some of the nicest neighborhoods in the city are on the south and east sides of the club. 

[custosnox]

What we need in Tulsa is simply more well paying jobs. More jobs of any sort. When people have good jobs they miraculously start a culture change. The culture is what needs changed.

+1 

[Jammie]

Yup, what Conan said. The thought of punishment is rarely a deterrent. Many criminals think they're too smart to be caught and prosecuted.

[nathanm]

I think what he means is that the goobermint can't be proactive (preventive), but it is reactive (punishment).

Which is an utterly ridiculous assertion. Head Start and similar programs, for example, have been shown to have lasting effects in reducing the chance of a former participant choosing to join a gang. Sex education in school has been shown to significantly reduce teen pregnancy rates, when the program is not abstinence only. Generally speaking, increasing education and improving the economy reduces the crime rate. Why shouldn't we, through our elected representatives, fund programs that work towards those ends?

Unfortunately, our punishment-based system doesn't work all that well. Why? Because punishment doesn't work very well in general. Helping people feel like they're part of society rather than on its fringe works much better.