Councilor Turner proposes council-city manager form of government

[RecycleMichael]

Politicking or pandering will get you canned too...It's a lot like a private sector position. . .COO of a public company.

Not even close. The job is constant politicking and pandering. You are the most high-profile person in a community, but can't move without the council approving your every step.

Bixby, Glenpool, Broken Arrow and Sand Springs have had 20 city managers between them in the last 15 years. The job allows the council to look good and yet have a scapegoat in their pocket whenever they want.

[Gaspar]

Not even close. The job is constant politicking and pandering. You are the most high-profile person in a community, but can't move without the council approving your every step.

Bixby, Glenpool, Broken Arrow and Sand Springs have had 20 city managers between them in the last 15 years. The job allows the council to look good and yet have a scapegoat in their pocket whenever they want.

Just like the CEO of a large corporation gets scapegoated by the chairmen.

If the City Manager sticks his head up, it usually gets knocked off.  It's not a long term position, but still more efficient than constant chamber bickering and contrarianism.

[RecycleMichael]

Just like the CEO of a large corporation gets scapegoated by the chairmen.

No it is not. A CEO of a large corporation is paid way more money than a city manager. He has many other benefits. A CEO also prepares his own budget, can hire and fire at will, and can control any message, even refusing to talk to the media.

A city manager often cannot even pick his own staff. Last year, the Bixby city council got mad at the city clerk and demanded that the city manager fire her. He said there was no wrongdoing and couldn't fire her without cause. Bixby councilors fired him instead. 

[waterboy]

You probably shouldn't use Bixby as an example....for anything. Small towns are notorious for their "Boss Hogg" mentalities. And as political and inept as Tulsa is, it has got to have better feed stock than Bixby (no offense Red). We could work on the concept and provide some guidelines for the position that protect it. Think of a city manager as a well paid CFO that has specific abilities and demonstrated success. Like a high quality football player who has a short term, no cut contract that is based on well defined benchmarks. Then if the benchmarks are met, he gets the contract renewed. Simple enough. I think of a particular personality that I knew from Cities Service who was that guy. People feared him because he knew what he was doing and didn't have time for bs.

I am not persuaded that it is any more a terrible job than being Mayor, Football Coach or any other high profile executive position. Pay him well but define the rules.

[inteller]

this has been a long time coming, I just didn't think it would come from Roscoe.  This needs to happen for Tulsa.  It may be the only way to get rid of Hardt and fix public works.  It is also the best avenue to bring planning back under the city.  City managers, as has already been mentioned are really analysts....and really chief planners.  When this does pass, I don't know of any manager that would take the job without knowing that planning would be under his domain.

You have exhibit A of what the good ole boy network can produce as a leader already in office right now.  It is time to break the cycle of million dollar elections that put doofuses in office.

[Red Arrow]

You probably shouldn't use Bixby as an example....for anything. Small towns are notorious for their "Boss Hogg" mentalities. And as political and inept as Tulsa is, it has got to have better feed stock than Bixby (no offense Red).

None taken.  I am aware that Bixby is small town politics.

[Breadburner]

I would rather do away with the city council and go back to  Water & Sewer and Street Comissioners.....

[inteller]

we already have that de facto in Charles Hardt....and you can see how well that is working out for us.

[wildgoose]

My first thought in hearing about this idea is simple...

It is a power grab by the city council when they have to negotiate with another ELECTED official, with whom a majority of them disagree, and come up with compromise solutions to complex problems. 

This is how government is designed to work in this country, from the Federal government on down, a balance of power and with checks and balances is the safest form of government for human beings.

This council seemed very happy while Mayor Taylor was serving, and now when the "other" party has the post they would like to eleminate the job. 

It is never a good idea to take the job of electing public servants away from the people and make it more political by giving it to a few people who "represent" the people.

This idea should stop dead right here.

[inteller]

the levels of ineptitude displayed from the mayor's office since January....and it pains me to say this...exceed the levels it took KKT to achieve in 4 years....all the while the real foisters and decievers get to continue tearing down Tulsa piece by piece.

[waterboy]

My first thought in hearing about this idea is simple...

It is a power grab by the city council when they have to negotiate with another ELECTED official, with whom a majority of them disagree, and come up with compromise solutions to complex problems. 

This is how government is designed to work in this country, from the Federal government on down, a balance of power and with checks and balances is the safest form of government for human beings.

This council seemed very happy while Mayor Taylor was serving, and now when the "other" party has the post they would like to eleminate the job. 

It is never a good idea to take the job of electing public servants away from the people and make it more political by giving it to a few people who "represent" the people.

This idea should stop dead right here.

What city have you lived in the last 12 years? This one has had pretty much a circus with the last half dozen mayors. They have butted heads with each and every council whether dem or repub.

Beware of simple thinking. Checks and balances have little to do with basic administration. The everyday stuff that keeps street lights on, medians mowed and public pools open. At a federal level this is not done by elected officials. This is hardly a power grab. The mayor could still be a powerful entity to deal with. And, perhaps his/her vision could be easier to define and accomplish with a professional keeping the utilities paid.

This would take some time and require studious planning in order to avoid increasing staff but it is well worth considering.

[OldTimeTulsan]

The difference, inteller, is that if Chas Hardt were Street Commissioner, he would have been thrown out of office years ago. Those old enough to remember the commission form of government in Tulsa know how much better it was and how much more accountable city govt was in general. The city has been in a downward spiral ever since the council form started.

[Breadburner]

The difference, inteller, is that if Chas Hardt were Street Commissioner, he would have been thrown out of office years ago. Those old enough to remember the commission form of government in Tulsa know how much better it was and how much more accountable city govt was in general. The city has been in a downward spiral ever since the council form started.

Excelent Post.....

[OldTimeTulsan]

So, Breadburner, how do we get commission govt on the ballot? I can't believe there hasn't been a move to do this before ----

[Conan71]

The difference, inteller, is that if Chas Hardt were Street Commissioner, he would have been thrown out of office years ago. Those old enough to remember the commission form of government in Tulsa know how much better it was and how much more accountable city govt was in general. The city has been in a downward spiral ever since the council form started.

You make an interesting point.  One should note that the flood improvements, which some credit as being Hardt's greatest accomplishment, after the 1984 flood were largely concieved and completed under the old commissioner form of government. 

I assume all it would take would be a charter amendment vote to change it back, but you are going to have nine councilors each protecting their own fiefdom who will do anything possible to keep that from happening.