Councilor Turner proposes council-city manager form of government

[Hoss]

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just as unhappy with our current state of affairs in this city as most anyone else on this forum. I just see it as having happened over a long period of time and not by partisan politics, firemen or police. Perhaps it is coincidental with past organizational systems and leadership or maybe it is just the nature of the maturation of a city in the time period it is growing. I couldn't say for sure. But our problems now are neither the fault of, nor can they be cured by, this council system. It is pitting control oriented sophomoric mayoral leadership against laymen councillors. Neither has a long term view tempered with government experience. They get mired in details and find it easier to blame each other and work towards the next election. Barnes may not be the best councillor I ever had but she was better than Gomez for my interests. The only councilor who ever actually visited me was a Republican from West Tulsa. That impressed me alot.

The missing piece here is the competence that long term mayors and commissioners got from experience or that a well trained competent city manager might possess. That is why I am open to the suggestion.

I think OTT and Shadows must be related...

[OldTimeTulsan]

Good Lord, I'm scared now. The Tulsa World appears to agree with me today.

They are encouraging Bartlett to block the council budget using executive authority to keep the council from plunging the city into another budget crisis. That should engender harmonious relations with the council. 

Somehow I don't think this gambit would work with a city manager controlled by the council. This is a really great system.

[shadows]

The change of charter (called an amendment) was preformed over several years.  Roger was to resign as speaker of the house in OC (where he was known to be able to move any legislation forward) and if one retrieves the filing of expenses and his resignation as Mayor it is quite evident it was a well planned move of men and mice.  In the finial draft $23,000 dollars was paid a former city attorney for a few words to be changed as well as reducing the council numbers to 9.  The cry of "we don't want ward rule" turned out to where we have ward rule sitting in the background.. In order to avoid ward rule it was discussed that the councilor be appointed from the specified districts according to their knowledge of city operations.  It is like the new city hall where possible over 90% of the citizens will be in their graves before it is paid for.  Still an elected council is seated without any knowledge on the function of the city needs to be addressed.

The police academy should be abounded and the vacant building be used as a councilor academy requiring so many hours before they are allowed to cast a vote. 

The archives record that every nation, country or city has eventually returned to a monarch system of rule after the rebellions.   Do you want sugar in your tea?     

[OldTimeTulsan]

Could you be a long lost brother, Shadows? Hoss seems to think so.

[Hoss]

Could you be a long lost brother, Shadows? Hoss seems to think so.

Believe it or not, that wasn't meant to be complimentary...

[waterboy]

Good Lord, I'm scared now. The Tulsa World appears to agree with me today.

They are encouraging Bartlett to block the council budget using executive authority to keep the council from plunging the city into another budget crisis. That should engender harmonious relations with the council. 

Somehow I don't think this gambit would work with a city manager controlled by the council. This is a really great system.

Why do you think a city manager would be controlled by the council alone? Why is this being framed as a Mayor vs Council battle anyway? Did the World support Bartlett in the election?

Bartlett is a figurehead for the local republican powers represented by Simonson. They insisted on breaking the fire and police unions and did their job. Now they have created enemies out of supporters and concerns about their competency. Where a vacuum exists, air will tend to rush in.

A city manager position is worth investigating.

[shadows]

Could you be a long lost brother, Shadows? Hoss seems to think so.

Hoss seems to have already missed his flight while he was playing Pac-Man in a non-existing arcade.  Seem I was there during the constant effort  to change the charter of which in the end it was called amending it only in order to get it to pass.  The chronicles record among the species that control reverts to those in wealth in the passing of only a minimum of generations.  Not one system in all recorded history has overcome rebellion of which we are seeing more of today as we point our finger to the upcoming generation.  Jefferson in his threat of "mob rule" cannot overtake the rule of "follow the worthless dollar" Appointment of city managers does not and will not end corruption in following the money.  The cause is in defeat even before the race to follow the dollar begins.

[Hoss]

Hoss seems to have already missed his flight while he was playing Pac-Man in a non-existing arcade.  Seem I was there during the constant effort  to change the charter of which in the end it was called amending it only in order to get it to pass.  The chronicles record among the species that control reverts to those in wealth in the passing of only a minimum of generations.  Not one system in all recorded history has overcome rebellion of which we are seeing more of today as we point our finger to the upcoming generation.  Jefferson in his threat of "mob rule" cannot overtake the rule of "follow the worthless dollar" Appointment of city managers does not and will not end corruption in following the money.  The cause is in defeat even before the race to follow the dollar begins.

I guess the 'lucid moments' are over for Shadows....

[shadows]

I guess the 'lucid moments' are over for Shadows....

No; it is just pointing out you are playing "leap frog" on the brim of the canyon without knowing how far the drop it. 

[Gaspar]

Drop it like it's hot!

[Hoss]

No; it is just pointing out you are playing "leap frog" on the brim of the canyon without knowing how far the drop it.  

My point made.

[OldTimeTulsan]

Believe it or not, I took it as a compliment.

Back to subject - who would control a city manager? Somebody elected, I hope.