Home invasions

[custosnox]

I consider my neighborhood to be pretty innocuous when it comes to being a crime target, but like any other square mile in the city, it's not immune from burglary, home invasions, auto theft, and the rare but occasional murder. 

There's three rooms in my house I occupy most frequently.  If posted warnings for my security system are not enough of a deterrent, I've got a firearm within easy reach in any of the three rooms I usually occupy in my house.  They are not located in an obvious place that someone could spot them easily if they did a quick plundering of my house. 

I have no children at home, my 5 lb Yorkie doesn't care for guns, and my GF has her SDA so any shootings in my house won't be accidental, just a rude awakening for unwanted intruders.  I'm not paranoid, I simply see no reason to be a victim.  I keep my front door closed and locked when I'm home.  I don't even leave it un-locked when I mow as the current crop of invaders seems pretty damn brazen.

As far as the security warnings, we had stickers on the house at the time.  However, the alarm wasn't working at the time either so it was just a sticker then. 

Also, we tend to let the shepard hang out inside a lot more now.  Though I do worry about him bitting another cop if we have another breakin...

[nathanm]

Meh, buy a gun and an MFD.

Eh, I'd rather keep them out in the first place. Saves me from dealing with the hassle of shooting someone and the expense of owning a gun. Neither guns worth owning or ammo worth using are cheap.

[Gaspar]

As far as the security warnings, we had stickers on the house at the time.  However, the alarm wasn't working at the time either so it was just a sticker then. 

Also, we tend to let the shepard hang out inside a lot more now.  Though I do worry about him bitting another cop if we have another breakin...

I don't think these guys give a crap about stickers.  They know they're in and out before an alarm will do any good.

Most of the crime that does take place in our area ends up being traced back to the 61st and Riverside/Peoria area.  Two years ago my wife had her car stolen, and that's were it was recovered.  We had several robberies this year, and the criminals were traced back to Sand Dollar.  A home invasion a couple of streets down from us about three weeks ago was traced back there, and the getaway car from "Crack-n-grab" invasion yesterday was recovered there.

In fact, I don't think a week has gone by lately when I haven't heard report of some crime/shooting/robbery/rape being reported or traced to the 61st and Riverside/Peoria area.

We have these concentrated havens for criminal activity where organized and unorganized gangs can operate and obtain drugs.  When the cash runs out they fan out and commit crime to support their lifestyle.  

Every few years the cops raid the apartments in that area and return with a jail full of felons.  

Looks like it's time again.  Might be a good way for Bartlett to help turn around his image.

[Gaspar]

Eh, I'd rather keep them out in the first place. Saves me from dealing with the hassle of shooting someone and the expense of owning a gun. Neither guns worth owning or ammo worth using are cheap.

I don't think anyone should own a gun if they don't like guns.  It makes them more of a liability.  With the right to bear arms comes the right to not bear arms.

Not to be confused with Bear-arms.

[Conan71]

Eh, I'd rather keep them out in the first place. Saves me from dealing with the hassle of shooting someone and the expense of owning a gun. Neither guns worth owning or ammo worth using are cheap.

If your home entry wasn't designed that way in the first place, chances are the entire assembly can be kicked in pretty easily as it will separate from the framing.

A cheap pump shotgun is all you need, and a better defense than one of the reinforced door kits and about the same cost.  They also double well for a ball bat- a well-weighted one at that. That "cha-chack" sound is unmistakable and birdshot is a pretty safe home-defense round.

[waterboy]

Crime in Tulsa is about control of the drug trade. This area is the southern node for distribution/consumption.

Johnson Park at 61st and Riverside should be expanded Eastward to Peoria and the apartments south of 61st should be flattened and replaced with an Amusement Park. Since the dam at Jenks is going to create a lake, this would be a great point at which to divide the park with a canal and install a port as well.

IOW, do what they did to the north side of downtown in the 70's. Only this time do it with a plan and cooperation of the surrounding area. Excise the tumor and rebuild the area.

[Conan71]

Crime in Tulsa is about control of the drug trade. This area is the southern node for distribution/consumption.

Johnson Park at 61st and Riverside should be expanded Eastward to Peoria and the apartments south of 61st should be flattened and replaced with an Amusement Park. Since the dam at Jenks is going to create a lake, this would be a great point at which to divide the park with a canal and install a port as well.

IOW, do what they did to the north side of downtown in the 70's. Only this time do it with a plan and cooperation of the surrounding area. Excise the tumor and rebuild the area.

Then you simply are exporting the problem to other areas of the city when the trouble makers are re-located.

[Gold]

Build a moon base for the troublemakers.

Ok, back to my question, if you don't get to your weapon and or don't want a shootout, what do you say to thes guys?

[Gaspar]

Build a moon base for the troublemakers.

Ok, back to my question, if you don't get to your weapon and or don't want a shootout, what do you say to thes guys?

Take my money and rape me but please be gentle.

[waterboy]

Build a moon base for the troublemakers.

Ok, back to my question, if you don't get to your weapon and or don't want a shootout, what do you say to thes guys?

Yeah, my mistake. I thought you guys wanted a discussion. Why and how to ameliorate the problem. Turns out you just want to talk guns and shoot em ups. Ok, trap doors, electric tazers, swords, ball bats and derringers strapped to your wrist. Then just say good bye butt wipe.

Seriously, you get rid of colonies of ants and termites by changing their environment and using bug spray. But you never really get rid of them. You direct them to more hospitable surroundings. It is silly to think that everyone strapping on a gun full time  solvesthe problem. You simply escalate the level of violence.

[Conan71]

Yeah, my mistake. I thought you guys wanted a discussion. Why and how to ameliorate the problem. Turns out you just want to talk guns and shoot em ups. Ok, trap doors, electric tazers, swords, ball bats and derringers strapped to your wrist. Then just say good bye butt wipe.

Seriously, you get rid of colonies of ants and termites by changing their environment and using bug spray. But you never really get rid of them. You direct them to more hospitable surroundings. It is silly to think that everyone strapping on a gun full time  solvesthe problem. You simply escalate the level of violence.

Solving the problem isn't as simple as up-rooting the people causing 90% of the crime.  Where do you re-deposit them in hopes they won't coalesce back up as another crime pocket?  What do you mean by bug spray?  I'm interested in discussion just trying to figure out how you re-distribute so that you don't create another ghetto and racism isn't claimed if they are all sent back up to the north side.

A gun is a good deterrent.  99% of the criminals would far rather face an un-armed victim, I assure you.  They are like water, follow the path of least resistance.

[Gaspar]

You are correct, guns don't solve problems.  They kill them, or make them run away.

Criminals prey on the weak.  They seek to take from those less likely to resist.  When they encounter resistance they move on.  They don't want to get shot or go to jail.

As for location, we have several places that are sanctuaries for criminals.  Many of the people we end up catching in these places are already felons with existing warrants.  It seems to me that we are not doing a good enough job of rounding up our existing documented and wanted criminals.  It also seems to make sense that sweeping some of these sanctuaries (as we have done in the past) would go a long way to deter crime, and make criminals feel less welcome in these neighborhoods.

Coordinated sweeps like the ones we've done previously at Sand Dollar take dozens of criminals off the streets, and are far more cost effective than individual efforts to target and capture wanted felons. 

If we do that Waterboy, then we won't have to shoot them.    See, Win/Win.

[Conan71]

But, now we have to have the point proved to us by the FOP that we screwed ourselves in laying off officers because now we don't have time to do sweeps like that.  Kind of a weak excuse though, considering I don't remember hearing about any sweeps recently before the cops were laid off. 

[Gaspar]

But, now we have to have the point proved to us by the FOP that we screwed ourselves in laying off officers because now we don't have time to do sweeps like that.  Kind of a weak excuse though, considering I don't remember hearing about any sweeps recently before the cops were laid off. 

Nah, I think the last big one was about 5 or 6 years ago.  If I remember correctly it nabbed 21 known felons and several undocumented who were let go.  I have a friend who was one of the cops on that raid.  He says all they did was walk through the complex and ask people standing around for some id.  If they started running, they arrested them.  There were plenty of people that just stayed in their apartments, so I would assume that the 21 (from memory, it may have been more) they caught were just the tip of the iceberg.  They also recovered several stolen vehicles and vehicles used in the commission of crimes.

[waterboy]

Solving the problem isn't as simple as up-rooting the people causing 90% of the crime.  Where do you re-deposit them in hopes they won't coalesce back up as another crime pocket?  What do you mean by bug spray?  I'm interested in discussion just trying to figure out how you re-distribute so that you don't create another ghetto and racism isn't claimed if they are all sent back up to the north side.

A gun is a good deterrent.  99% of the criminals would far rather face an un-armed victim, I assure you.  They are like water, follow the path of least resistance.

Actually, uprooting worked in the area just north of downtown in the 1970's. It too was overun with drugs, gambling, prostitution and crime. And just like now, it was fueled by the rest of the city and the crime was starting to spread into downtown, Maple Ridge and Brookside. Many Maple Ridge homes still have bars on them from that time period. The city simply used federal funds designed for urban renewal and wiped the area clean in hopes it would make a buffer zone and be worthy of redevelopment by area institutions. It worked just like it had before. Second street was also known as skid row in the 60's. Same thing happened then. We developed the area into banks, PAC and hotels.

Unfortunately, we had some serious economic problems in the early 70's that were a result of the oil "shortages". So the area didn't take off like they had hoped. Leadership changed, politics changed and funding changed.  And yes, the destruction was racist in its execution. The owners of those properties didn't have much representation. We can do better now.

You don't redeposit those people. Most of them don't even live in the area. They are strong arming family and friends for a place to do business. They don't own any property, they don't rent, they use the area. In fact, many of these new aggressive criminals are displaced from southern Louisiana because of Katrina. Once the area is no longer valuable they will disperse to other more hospitable areas, they will leave for other cities or they will get arrested and jailed. Its an ongoing battle, much like the war on terrorism. Its not that complicated, its nature. They are small businessmen with no morals or integrity looking to sell a product to a gullible market. Sort of like fake estate sales. When their market place isn't producing they move on.

Guns and other defenses are the "bug spray". Cops and jails are the "bug spray". I have no problem with bug spray. But they are a temporary diversion for the ants and termites. They will keep coming back as long as the environment is attractive to them.