Oklahoma et. al. to Follow Arizona

[custosnox]

Actually, no. Arizona law puts an affirmative duty on the LEO to check immigration status if he believes they might be an illegal alien. Rhode Island law allows a LEO to do that, but does not require it.

It is still similar, and they both give the locals a tool to fight illegal imigration, which the opponents say should only be the job of the federal government.  Not to mention that there is really little differance considering the fact that in AZ all they have to do is say they did not believe they were illegal if they don't want to run the person.  Still comes down to what the cop chooses to do.

[swake]

I agree with revoking and suspending a business license of someone who deliberately hires illegals, but what would stop that individual from putting that business in someone else name on paper.

Why don't we just shoot them?

[we vs us]

Why don't we just shoot them?

I support the modesty of your proposal. 

[Gaspar]

I support the modesty of your proposal. 

That's what Mexico does to illegals.

[swake]

That's what Mexico does to illegals.

It's obviously always a good idea to copy the policies of 3rd world nations that border on being failed states.

[Conan71]

It's obviously always a good idea to copy the policies of 3rd world nations that border on being failed states.

And real slick for presidents of third world human dumps to come to our country and assail us for our immigration policies in our own HOR. 

[Hoss]

And real slick for presidents of third world human dumps to come to our country and assail us for our immigration policies in our own HOR. 

+1

While I don't approve of shooting people accused of illegal immigration (obviously), we need stricter enforcement (that's my 'duh' moment of the day).

Pretty much everyone here should know my stance on it.  I don't believe one iota in amnesty.  You're sending the message that it's ok to violate the law, and even if you're caught, you may still get a free pass.  Make them work for citizenship just like all the people I know who've done it the right way.  It's meant to not be easy.

[swake]

And real slick for presidents of third world human dumps to come to our country and assail us for our immigration policies in our own HOR. 

Look, you are smarter than that. These "leaders" of Latin American countries that are so dependent on the United States are summoned to Washington for this or that reason, they are by and large going to do what they are told, but they have to save face in some way to preserve the illusion back home that they are not just a lackey of the United States, when in fact they largely are.

In Mexico's case, we want Mexico to take on the drug lords to help keep drugs out of the US, it's ripping Mexico apart but they are doing it, and doing it at our direction. So the Mexican president comes to the US, he gets his orders and gets a photo op with Obama where he is publically lectured by the US President on whatever we need them to do. So in turn President Calderon takes a small, soft, swipe back when it's his turn at the podium in the White House. It plays in the press back home showing he's independent and working for his people. We in turn pay exactly zero attention to what was said, because we can. Calderon's statement wasn't an insult or a demand he expects us to listen to, it was him just playing politics back home. He's doing what he's told so we would do well to just ignore what he said.

[RecycleMichael]

It is getting harder for me to employ Hispanic workers. I hired a mariachi band and got two gringos named Murray and Archie.

[swake]

+1

While I don't approve of shooting people accused of illegal immigration (obviously), we need stricter enforcement (that's my 'duh' moment of the day).

Pretty much everyone here should know my stance on it.  I don't believe one iota in amnesty.  You're sending the message that it's ok to violate the law, and even if you're caught, you may still get a free pass.  Make them work for citizenship just like all the people I know who've done it the right way.  It's meant to not be easy.

Please, this is in no way that simple. If you are college educated from England you can immigrate at any time with no waiting, if you are poor and Mexican, good luck with that. And how hard was it for your ancestors to immigrate and join our club? I bet not near as hard as it is today for the average poor kid from Guatemala.

Our legal immigration is often racially biased with quotas that are just way too small given demand, both internal (job demand)and external(interested immigrants).  We have for over a hundred years winked at illegal immigration because we have always had such a huge need for cheap, unskilled labor.  Your home, your food, your roads were all provided by the cheap labor of largely undocumented workers. And this is not a new phenomenon, huge portions of previous waves of immigrants were not documented either.  Over the last 130 years Chinese, Italians and other large immigrant groups all had large portions of their immigrant communities that were not here legally. Today their great-grandkids are completely legal citizens, you very well might be one of them. We have always just winked at the "crime" of illegal immigration. You want an example how this is true, being an illegal in the United States carries less of a penalty then a parking ticket. In fact, there is no penalty what so ever except to stop breaking the law (deportation).

Overall immigration has been very good for this country, legal and not. We take the most ambitious, the hardest working, the most striving, the smartest people from failing countries around the world and over time they add a great deal of productivity and innovation to America. It's a big part of our nation's success.

I don't mean this to say that I think illegal immigration is a good thing, I don't, but I also don't think we should brand all illegals as some kind of drug dealing violent criminals. Some are certainly, but the vast majority are not.  A little known fact is that Immigrants overall, legal and not, commit fewer crimes than native born Americans and pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. The real issue, other than racist right wing identity politics, is that there are some very bad people that come across the border and we need to stop them. By enforcing legal immigration caps we end up having no control over and knowing nothing about 50-60% of the total yearly immigrants into this country.

The first thing we need to do is to remove the caps on legal immigration to remove the pressure for people to enter illegally. Allow anyone without a criminal record or illness to immigrate. Kick the legs out from under the industry that sneaks people into the United States and remove the pressure on the border. This isn't revolutionary. It is how we used to handle immigration. Before 1882 with the Chinese Exclusion Act we had no real immigration rules at all and admitted 98% of applicants. Ever since we have been talking about but also not really fighting illegal immigration. Going back to those rules would allow the border patrol to know that anyone sneaking across is a very likely a very bad person, because that's the only reason to sneak across. We then should harden the border against those truly bad people.

We should then start to deport people en-mass. Encourage illegals to leave and enter legally on their own, if they don't do it we will do it for them. But no amnesty, just leave one way or another, get checked on the way back in and then be here legally fully participating in taxes and laws. After a period of time to allow the millions illegals already here to leave and reenter legally make it a real crime with teeth to be here illegally. Because again, with an open immigration policy there is no reason other than being a criminal for a person to be in the US illegally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/us/12iht-letter.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/web/20070507-chinese-exclusion-act-california-chester-a-arthur-immigration-san-francisco-earthquake-of-1906-paper-sons.shtml

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/immigration_chron.cfm

[Conan71]

The first thing we need to do is to remove the caps on legal immigration to remove the pressure for people to enter illegally.

Unfortunately, you can't just do that.  Immigration caps are there for a reason mostly to keep from overwhelming the job market and social services.  I don't think there's a country anywhere on earth which does not have some sort of quotas.  Why would we want unlimited immigration if we didn't have enough jobs to support these people?

As Americans we enjoy many freedoms and a great standard of living.  I have no problem sharing that with people who want the same opportunities people like you and I were born into.  I simply don't think you can throw open the gates and remove quotas. 

I find it interesting that people believe for the most part that our laws cause people to violate our laws.  That's not the case, it's a lack of respect for our laws which causes people to violate them. 

[dbacks fan]

Kick the legs out from under the industry that sneaks people into the United States and remove the pressure on the border.

Just exactly how do you propose this be done? You can arrest all the coyotes on this side of the border, but how do you propose to kick the legs out of the people on the other side of the border? As for the ones arrested here, theres probably two more people that will take that persons place.

[Conan71]

Just exactly how do you propose this be done? You can arrest all the coyotes on this side of the border, but how do you propose to kick the legs out of the people on the other side of the border? As for the ones arrested here, theres probably two more people that will take that persons place.

Or the coyote is deported back to the other side and starts over.  It's a minor inconvenience in an otherwise lucrative career.

[swake]

Unfortunately, you can't just do that.  Immigration caps are there for a reason mostly to keep from overwhelming the job market and social services.  I don't think there's a country anywhere on earth which does not have some sort of quotas.  Why would we want unlimited immigration if we didn't have enough jobs to support these people?

As Americans we enjoy many freedoms and a great standard of living.  I have no problem sharing that with people who want the same opportunities people like you and I were born into.  I simply don't think you can throw open the gates and remove quotas. 

I find it interesting that people believe for the most part that our laws cause people to violate our laws.  That's not the case, it's a lack of respect for our laws which causes people to violate them. 

Are you under the impression that this would expand immigration? Illegal immigration may be down as much as 50% over the last several years because of a lack of jobs. When there are jobs, more immigrants come in to fill those jobs, when there are no jobs, fewer come and some leave. It's supply and demand. And when there is demand for immigrant labor, the immigrants do get here, legally or not. Today we have about 60%-40% legal vs. illegal immigration split with some percentage of the illegals being people we really don't want to be here.  If we opened it up so that we know who is entering, we can better keep out the 5% we don't want here. If we would fix legal immigration, I think overall immigration would be at worst static (because again, supply and demand of unskilled jobs) and might even FALL by keeping that 5% out better. Much of that 5% isn't really what we would call working and filling jobs so there's little economic pressure to replace them with other immigrants.

[swake]

Just exactly how do you propose this be done? You can arrest all the coyotes on this side of the border, but how do you propose to kick the legs out of the people on the other side of the border? As for the ones arrested here, theres probably two more people that will take that persons place.

If you legalize immigration through standard channels it removes the reason for the human smuggling industry to even exist.  It's zeros out demand for their product.