Oklahoma et. al. to Follow Arizona

[nathanm]

Citations aren't Nate's strong point:

You make me laugh.

Not only do you accuse me of not providing a citation, when I did so prior to your post but you also engage in the same "parsing" behavior you claim I do.

Gaspar is right, the audio is better. I hope everyone goes to the WaPo link, downloads it, and listens to it themselves. Then they can decide what they think she meant.

Yeah, half the country wants to use "second amendment remedies" against the Congress. You're talking as nutty as Angle.

Edited to add: Or another way to look at it is that more than half the country subscribed to Obama's agenda. Oops.

[Conan71]

You make me laugh.

Not only do you accuse me of not providing a citation, when I did so prior to your post but you also engage in the same "parsing" behavior you claim I do.

Gaspar is right, the audio is better. I hope everyone goes to the WaPo link, downloads it, and listens to it themselves. Then they can decide what they think she meant.

Yeah, half the country wants to use "second amendment remedies" against the Congress. You're talking as nutty as Angle.

Edited to add: Or another way to look at it is that more than half the country subscribed to were fooled by Obama's Emanuel's agenda. Oops.

FIFY

Awww you beat me to it by four minutes.  You rarely provide citations to support your claims so I figured I would oblige. I was in the process of finding some when you posted yours.  

You obviously don't seem to be very well read on what the Tea Party movement is all about nor why Americans were given a 2nd Amendment in the first place.

Take a look at the polls, apparently less than half are happy with Pres. Obama's agenda.  

Glee on brother....

[nathanm]

You obviously don't seem to be very well read on what the Tea Party movement is all about nor why Americans were given a 2nd Amendment in the first place.

I get why we have a Second Amendment. It's so we have a nice trained militia to fall back on in case we get invaded and to prevent the Government from taking away our guns in case they get overzealous. It's one thing to recognize that, it's a completely different thing to call for the use of "second amendment remedies" if Harry Reid ends up winning.

The radio interview I linked to isn't the only one. I have to dig it up, but a couple days later she dug herself in deeper with an even more inflammatory comment. I should have bookmarked it.

And yeah, I never cite. Only every time someone refuses to believe what I'm saying.

Take a look at the election results, which were based on Obama's far more left-wing campaign promises than his decidedly moderate approach once elected.

[Hometown]

News Flash:  Ireland's Economy Crashes

Prediction:  Tulsa (with it's Irish roots) is probably already experiencing an influx of undocumented Irish immigrants (as it has before).  It will be interesting to see how our draconian anti-immigrant laws are applied to Irish immigrants.  

Terrill.  That's an Irish name.

[Gaspar]

At the same time, the needs of our Poor White community are overwhelming.  They are the one demographic in our nation without an advocate.  Our job is two fold:  One, create a guest worker program with a path to citizenship.  Two, rewrite our affirmation action laws to address the needs of our nation's Poor Whites.

Rant all you want, the Browning of the U.S. is a done deal.  And we'll be far better for it.

Why do we have to put labels of color or race on people.  Poor is poor.  Not all illegal aliens are Hispanic.

There is a path to citizenship.  We are not barring anyone from taking it.  Sure, it needs adjustment, but most of our illegal aliens NEVER attempt to come here legally.  

No one is talking of racial hatred.  We're not calling them illegal Hispanics.  The cries of racism are coming from the Hispanic community, and that's understandable.  It's a card they can put in play.

Affirmative Action laws are based on quotas and serve to harm the very people they intend to help by establishing a racial bias.  We are a long way from a colorblind nation when we subjugate people into groups in the name of fairness.  Can you imagine how horrible it must feel to know that you were offered a job, not because of your skills, but because of the color of your skin or the sound of your last name?  To be a token?  A check mark on a list?

I remember when I was just out of college interviewing for Pharmaceutical sales jobs.  The manager I interviewed with asked me a series of questions related to my race.  "Gaspar, that's a Hispanic name isn't it?"  I asked him why he wanted to know and he said that you get extra points and bonuses based on recruiting minorities.  He showed me all of the races on his list that were eligible and asked if I "fell into any of these categories."  I was shocked.  This was literally my first interview out of school, and it was based more on racial quotas than skill.  

Racism is wrong, and it has two faces.  You can persecute based on race, or you can reward based on race.  They are the same crime!

[Conan71]

I get why we have a Second Amendment. It's so we have a nice trained militia to fall back on in case we get invaded and to prevent the Government from taking away our guns in case they get overzealous. It's one thing to recognize that, it's a completely different thing to call for the use of "second amendment remedies" if Harry Reid ends up winning.

The radio interview I linked to isn't the only one. I have to dig it up, but a couple days later she dug herself in deeper with an even more inflammatory comment. I should have bookmarked it.

And yeah, I never cite. Only every time someone refuses to believe what I'm saying.

Take a look at the election results, which were based on Obama's far more left-wing campaign promises than his decidedly moderate approach once elected.

The Second Amendment banter has become more symbolic than anything about citizens wanting to take our country back from corporate and other special interests and end the plunder of the U.S. Treasury.  If you are picturing a real armed insurrection you are the one who should be in the looney bin.

So where is POTUS Obama's "mandate" now?  The reason people are becoming disenchanted is because they have seen the chicanery and back room deals which turned legislation like Obamacare into relative shells of what was promised.  Spare us the excuses of how the Republicans have watered down all of his agenda and ruined it for him.  That's total BS and it's got few takers.

[Red Arrow]

Take a look at the election results, which were based on Obama's far more left-wing campaign promises than his decidedly moderate approach once elected.

Nah, more the anyone but Bush or anyone associated with him vote.

Plus, Obama is very charismatic on the campaign trail.  Maybe not so much in office.

[Conan71]

News Flash:  Ireland's Economy Crashes

Prediction:  Tulsa (with it's Irish roots) is probably already experiencing an influx of undocumented Irish immigrants (as it has before).  It will be interesting to see how our draconian anti-immigrant laws are applied to Irish immigrants.  

Terrill.  That's an Irish name.

I want all illegal immigrants dealt with equally, I don't care if they are Mexican, Japanese, Canadian (eh?), British, Irish, German, African, Australian.  Doesn't matter.  If they are here illegally they need to be dealt with all the same and are under any and all immigration bills states have been passing. 

Why did you mention the name Terrill? 

[dbacks fan]

Appearently, racial profiling is legal at the federal Border Patrol level, and by wording of SB 1070, it can be apllied locally as well.

"In a 1975 case regarding the Border Patrol's power to stop vehicles near the U.S.-Mexico border and question the occupants about their citizenship and immigration status, United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, the high court ruled that the "likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor." In 1982 the Arizona Supreme Court agreed, ruling in State v. Graciano that "enforcement of immigration laws often involves a relevant consideration of ethnic factors."

Arizona's immigration law states that a "law enforcement official or agency . . . may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution." Although supporters of the law, including Gov. Jan Brewer (R) and other state officials, have said repeatedly that racial profiling is prohibited in its enforcement and that those charged with carrying out the law will be trained to avoid it, the fact that the legislature included this careful exception is significant."

Full article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/12/AR2010071204049.html

[swake]

I want all illegal immigrants dealt with equally, I don't care if they are Mexican, Japanese, Canadian (eh?), British, Irish, German, African, Australian.  Doesn't matter.  If they are here illegally they need to be dealt with all the same and are under any and all immigration bills states have been passing.  

Why did you mention the name Terrill?  

Rep Randy Terrill from Moore. A Tea Party favorite and our anti-immigration and English only standard bearer. Also dirty as hell and a racist.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-state-rep.-randy-terrill-got-home-loan-during-bankruptcy/article/3469776

http://www.muskogeepolitico.com/2010/03/randy-terrill-and-opea-sweetheart.html

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12606333

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081028_12_OKLA735778

http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/1220/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBEAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQBzAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAyADkA

[nathanm]

The Second Amendment banter has become more symbolic than anything about citizens wanting to take our country back from corporate and other special interests and end the plunder of the U.S. Treasury.  If you are picturing a real armed insurrection you are the one who should be in the looney bin.

Spare us the excuses of how the Republicans have watered down all of his agenda and ruined it for him.  That's total BS and it's got few takers.

Does the Second Amendment have provision relating to something other than arms? Did I miss something? What else could someone mean by "second amendment remedy." Get to parsing.

The Democrats are watering down their own bills, both because the vast majority of them are corporatists just like the Republicans, and in some misguided attempt to get some Republican support. No, the Republicans aren't at fault for the content. They are at fault for the Congress' inability to get legislation passed.

BTW, my statement that the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with overthrowing a tyrannical government is belied by the numerous armed rebellions put down in the early years of our republic. It's not actually true.

[Gaspar]

Appearently, racial profiling is legal at the federal Border Patrol level, and by wording of SB 1070, it can be apllied locally as well.

"In a 1975 case regarding the Border Patrol's power to stop vehicles near the U.S.-Mexico border and question the occupants about their citizenship and immigration status, United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, the high court ruled that the "likelihood that any given person of Mexican ancestry is an alien is high enough to make Mexican appearance a relevant factor." In 1982 the Arizona Supreme Court agreed, ruling in State v. Graciano that "enforcement of immigration laws often involves a relevant consideration of ethnic factors."

Arizona's immigration law states that a "law enforcement official or agency . . . may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution." Although supporters of the law, including Gov. Jan Brewer (R) and other state officials, have said repeatedly that racial profiling is prohibited in its enforcement and that those charged with carrying out the law will be trained to avoid it, the fact that the legislature included this careful exception is significant."

Full article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/12/AR2010071204049.html

Show me the wording that makes racial profiling legal.
Here is the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

[dbacks fan]

Show me the wording that makes racial profiling legal.
Here is the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

"Arizona's immigration law states that a "law enforcement official or agency . . . may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution."

While the fourth ammendment has not been changed, the US Supreme Court, 9th Circuit has upheld that racial profiling is allowable. This is what I take from the article from the WaPo.



"In case after case, in states including Florida, Iowa and New York, defendants arguing that Border Patrol stops constituted unlawful searches and seizures under the Fourth Amendment have encountered claims by the U.S. government -- including the current administration -- that "Mexican" or "Hispanic" appearance, along with other factors, justified an immigration stop. Border enforcement officers regularly admit in court that "Hispanic appearance" is one reason for an immigration stop."

[Gaspar]

"Arizona's immigration law states that a "law enforcement official or agency . . . may not consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona constitution."

While the fourth ammendment has not been changed, the US Supreme Court, 9th Circuit has upheld that racial profiling is allowable. This is what I take from the article from the WaPo.



"In case after case, in states including Florida, Iowa and New York, defendants arguing that Border Patrol stops constituted unlawful searches and seizures under the Fourth Amendment have encountered claims by the U.S. government -- including the current administration -- that "Mexican" or "Hispanic" appearance, along with other factors, justified an immigration stop. Border enforcement officers regularly admit in court that "Hispanic appearance" is one reason for an immigration stop."

First scenario:
So, lets say you are a cop in Arizona and have stopped a driver for speeding.  He has no license, no insurance, and speaks no English.  You have been charged with the responsibility of verifying his citizenship.  What do you do?

Second scenario:
You are a cop in Arizona. A van drives by and you see 12 Hispanic occupants. What do you do?

[dbacks fan]

First scenario:
So, lets say you are a cop in Arizona and have stopped a driver for speeding.  He has no license, no insurance, and speaks no English.  You have been charged with the responsibility of verifying his citizenship.  What do you do?

Second scenario:
You are a cop in Arizona. A van drives by and you see 12 Hispanic occupants. What do you do?

First scenario: Take the person into custody until identification can be determined.

Second scenario: With only twelve in the van, it probably says maid/landscape service on the side of it. Not enough people inside. Twenty five is the minimum. Also the van load would attempt to flee.