Global Warming/Climate Change/Global Weirding?

[Conan71]

A huge amount of data has disappeared from government websites.  From climate change to health data to civil rights policies.  It was so widespread several groups set out to backup all government websites to protect public data.

See, unless the government says it does, it doesn't exist!

[patric]

See, unless the government says it does, it doesn't exist!

"In the East, it could be the COLDEST New Year's Eve on record. Perhaps we could use a little bit of that good old Global Warming that our Country, but not other countries, was going to pay TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to protect against."

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/946531657229701120

...same day the rules put in place after the Deepwater Horizon oil spill are cut.

[guido911]

[cannon_fodder]

Not sure if just an attempt to troll, or if a lack of science knowledge. 

Congratulations to 2017, second hottest year recorded by humans! #1 is 2016, #3 is 2015, #4 is 2014.  To get all of the top ten you only have to go back to 1998.  But who cares about that, macro trends are troubling...
https://weather.com/news/climate/news/2017-11-17-earth-second-warmest-year-october-nasa-noaa

But hey, it's cold outside this week so global data is stupid!

[heironymouspasparagus]

One more time... Climate Change.


Not to be confused with, or by, RWRE dissemination, distortion, and pedophilia...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not sure if just an attempt to troll, or if a lack of science knowledge. 

Yes!

[swake]

Not sure if just an attempt to troll, or if a lack of science knowledge. 

Congratulations to 2017, second hottest year recorded by humans! #1 is 2016, #3 is 2015, #4 is 2014.  To get all of the top ten you only have to go back to 1998.  But who cares about that, macro trends are troubling...
https://weather.com/news/climate/news/2017-11-17-earth-second-warmest-year-october-nasa-noaa

But hey, it's cold outside this week so global data is stupid!

He's a troll, and not a clever one. Lowest common denominator only.

[erfalf]

Not sure if just an attempt to troll, or if a lack of science knowledge.  

Congratulations to 2017, second hottest year recorded by humans! #1 is 2016, #3 is 2015, #4 is 2014.  To get all of the top ten you only have to go back to 1998.  But who cares about that, macro trends are troubling...
https://weather.com/news/climate/news/2017-11-17-earth-second-warmest-year-october-nasa-noaa

But hey, it's cold outside this week so global data is stupid!

To be fair, humans have only inhabited the planet for about 0.0004% of it's existence (estimates obviously, since I wasn't there). And measuring the temperature has only been possible for a small portion of that time span.

When put into that perspective, it's really difficult to take such a small time series and make much of an inference based off of it. You say it's the warmest years recorded, but we have only been recording for such a short time, and climate patterns are much MUCH longer than that.

That and the whole complicated nature of taking global temperatures and averaging them thing.

I'm not saying this to say it's not warming, just to say that it is complicated and difficult to grasp the true magnitude of what is really happening.

[TeeDub]

Insert "you are dumb, it's all Trump's fault" comment here.

[Hoss]

"Global Warming isn't real because I was cold today.  Also:  great news!  World hunger is over because I just ate!".

I let you guess who said that.  Sets it in perspective.

[heironymouspasparagus]

To be fair, humans have only inhabited the planet for about 0.0004% of it's existence (estimates obviously, since I wasn't there). And measuring the temperature has only been possible for a small portion of that time span.

This is exactly the kind of misdirection, dissemination, and distortion the RWRE wants you to believe.  A grain of truth, then extended/expanded to become  a massive pile of BS.   Yes, we have been around a very short time.  Measuring the temperature with our thermometers has been around for a very short time.

But we also have the means to measure CO2 and temperature for the last 500,000 years.  The information is in the Vostok cores, and if you had paid attention, you would have seen links to them dozens of times so you can verify for yourself what those temperatures were.  And CO2.  And how the pattern worked for those half a million years.  And how it is vastly different - as in directly opposite - today!

But that would mean NOT following Fake Fox News exclusively.... would have to venture out to NPR, PBS, Nat Geo, Discovery, History channels, and possibly even Spike TV...


Quote;

"I'm not saying this to say it's not warming, just to say that it is complicated and difficult to grasp the true magnitude of what is really happening."

And even more difficult when all the evidence is willfully ignored and/or denied.

[erfalf]

This is exactly the kind of misdirection, dissemination, and distortion the RWRE wants you to believe.  A grain of truth, then extended/expanded to become  a massive pile of BS.   Yes, we have been around a very short time.  Measuring the temperature with our thermometers has been around for a very short time.

But we also have the means to measure CO2 and temperature for the last 500,000 years.  The information is in the Vostok cores, and if you had paid attention, you would have seen links to them dozens of times so you can verify for yourself what those temperatures were.  And CO2.  And how the pattern worked for those half a million years.  And how it is vastly different - as in directly opposite - today!

But that would mean NOT following Fake Fox News exclusively.... would have to venture out to NPR, PBS, Nat Geo, Discovery, History channels, and possibly even Spike TV...


Quote;

"I'm not saying this to say it's not warming, just to say that it is complicated and difficult to grasp the true magnitude of what is really happening."

And even more difficult when all the evidence is willfully ignored and/or denied.

I commented on what he said. You changed the subject to include more years, which I might add would refute cannon's claims if they were to be included. So which is it? Historically (all of it) we are at an extremely cool, and stable period (at least according to "science".

Apparently you only have to go back 125k years or so to get to a period that was warmer than we are now.

So I know you have the knee jerk reaction to think I am wrong and stupid and watch Fox news or whatever, but please at least try to address the points I make, instead of some straw man that you have concocted in your head.

[swake]

I commented on what he said. You changed the subject to include more years, which I might add would refute cannon's claims if they were to be included. So which is it? Historically (all of it) we are at an extremely cool, and stable period (at least according to "science".

Apparently you only have to go back 125k years or so to get to a period that was warmer than we are now.

So I know you have the knee jerk reaction to think I am wrong and stupid and watch Fox news or whatever, but please at least try to address the points I make, instead of some straw man that you have concocted in your head.

I know you hate citation, but this one you need to provide your "source" on.

[erfalf]

I know you hate citation, but this one you need to provide your "source" on.

Gavin Schmidt, I believe he is the co-founder of the RealClimate website as well as Director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York. I don't think he falls in the denier category but I may be wrong.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2017/01/18/hottest-year-on-record/96713338/

Again, what cannon correctly claimed was that it was the hottest on record. What I said was that climate pre-dates the "record" by quite a bit and needs to be taken in context.


I also know the article is a year old now, but it really doesn't matter all that much in this discussion.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I commented on what he said. You changed the subject to include more years, which I might add would refute cannon's claims if they were to be included. So which is it? Historically (all of it) we are at an extremely cool, and stable period (at least according to "science".

Apparently you only have to go back 125k years or so to get to a period that was warmer than we are now.

So I know you have the knee jerk reaction to think I am wrong and stupid and watch Fox news or whatever, but please at least try to address the points I make, instead of some straw man that you have concocted in your head.

My point was addressing the fact that the point you made was inadequate and way too simplistic.  The exact type of point making that Fake Fox News wants everyone to make, so they can spew their garbage and bobble-head listeners everywhere will just bobble along and not look anywhere past the original sound bite.  I am glad to see you went that next step!!!  As for being stupid, no, I don't think you are stupid and in fact I think I have commented on that in the past.  I do think you limit yourself to too 'narrow' a view of the world as most visibly evidenced by your ongoing support of Trump and the horrendous things he is doing to our long term well being as a nation.

125,000 years.  250,000 years.  325,000 years.  And so forth we have temperature spikes.


This is kind of a simplistic data chart - but shows temp in degrees F, and CO2 relative to today.  There have been warmer times, but in other better graphs, it is absolutely obvious that temperature goes up first, followed by CO2.  Today is the exact opposite.  This chart shows CO2 still below 400 ppm - it is about 405 ppm today.  And CO2 started up first, bringing temperature with it.  THAT is the huge difference and what should be at the very least a major question of concern....and probably should make everyone on the planet go running into the distance like their hair was on fire, screaming all the way...

http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/06/29/human_cause-3/


The planet also has some interesting "ice age" cycles (see chart link below).  This one shows the 100,000 year cycles of the last half million, with 41k cycles and then several million years of relative calm.  Our climate is becoming more oscillatory (unstable) and radical.  We have started to add to this and I don't think anyone can yet say how it will finally all fall out, except there will be change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#/media/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.svg


This one shows how temps have changed just for the last half million, relative to Vostok, et al.  If we were to just look at that, and feel that there is a pattern, it would tell us we are on the brink of the next ice age.  Then we gotta figure out how to model the massive increase in CO2 - previous high of near 300 with much different temperature features.   All of these are why we should be concerned.   I still say, it either won't matter one way or the other, or it is too late to alleviate anything.   Hold on boys and girls - your grandkids are gonna have the ride of their lives!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#/media/File:Ice_Age_Temperature.png