The New Mosque

[we vs us]

On the flip side of that, they may have decided the spot not only for the need in the area, but also with those who were muslim that were lost in the attack (and I don't mean the terrorists) in mind.  And now that the issue is being pushed, it comes down to a question of why should they have to give up their rights because others don't like it?  Sometimes gaining religous freedom comes down taking a stand against those who wish to reduce it.

Well said.  

[Hoss]

You are aware that among the 3,000 dead were several dozen Muslims, correct?

The 9-11 guys were equal-opportunity killers. That's what's been lost amid all the noise.

Actually, the number I heard was 28, but that still falls in line with how many practicing Muslims there are as a percentage of population (about 0.7 percent last I read; the 28 number puts them just shy of 1 percent)

So, are those one percent 'UnAmerican'?  I wonder how their families would feel if they said that.

And before people start yapping about 'Islamic Radicalism', let's not forget ALL religions have radicals, at one time or another.  Let's not forget a little thing from our Ancient history called The Crusades.

[we vs us]

It's interesting that we're taking this time in our election cycle to revisit certain of our constitutional rights, 1st and 14th Amendments being the most under the microscope recently. 

[Ed W]

Crap? What "crap" would that be, that some people don't want a mosque built near the location where 3,000 innocent Americans were murdered by members of that faith will worship? 

Personally, I am not offended at all about the location of this mosque. It's just that people who lost loved ones at the hands of barbarians might, just might, be offended. They, in my opinion, have a right to be heard.

Given that line of reasoning, Guido, we should abolish Christian churches within sight of the former Murrah building because some radicals with ties to the Christian right killed 170 innocents.  We should discriminate against Shinto adherents and Buddhists because they bombed and torpedoed Americans at Pearl Harbor.  Maybe we should abolish West Point because their graduates fought to overthrow the government during the late unpleasantness of 1861 to 1865.

You're an attorney, after all, Guido.  Which is superior under the law - the First Amendment or your presumed right to not be offended?

[custosnox]

They, in my opinion, have a right to be heard.

As my very conservative step-father often says about liberals who speak out "they have the right to free speech, but no where in the constitution does it give them the right to be heard. They can talk all they want, but no one has to listen"

[guido911]

Given that line of reasoning, Guido, we should abolish Christian churches within sight of the former Murrah building because some radicals with ties to the Christian right killed 170 innocents.  We should discriminate against Shinto adherents and Buddhists because they bombed and torpedoed Americans at Pearl Harbor.  Maybe we should abolish West Point because their graduates fought to overthrow the government during the late unpleasantness of 1861 to 1865.

You're an attorney, after all, Guido.  Which is superior under the law - the First Amendment or your presumed right to not be offended?

WTH are you talking about?My whole point is that people that lost loved ones at Ground Zero have a right to be heard and, perhaps, not have their objections called "crap" by the likes of you. How many of your loved ones were murdered on 9/11? Me, none, but I can certainly empathize with their pain which is more than I can say about you.

And back off the 1st Amendment crap because its not about whether there is a right to build the mosque. Its like what your dear leader, Obama, says...it's about the "wisdom" to put it there.

[nathanm]

WTH are you talking about?My whole point is that people that lost loved ones at Ground Zero have a right to be heard and, perhaps, not have their objections called "crap" by the likes of you. How many of your loved ones were murdered on 9/11?

While I can't say I've ever had a loved one killed in a terrorist attack, I've lost enough of them to say that I'm offended that they would try to twist their loved ones' death for something so obviously political. By their standard I should get upset every time I see a woman with breast implants.

In any event, the overall religion is not responsible for the actions of the nutters, even when the nutters try to make twisted claims about how their actions are supported by their religion.

[guido911]

While I can't say I've ever had a loved one killed in a terrorist attack, I've lost enough of them to say that I'm offended that they would try to twist their loved ones' death for something so obviously political. By their standard I should get upset every time I see a woman with breast implants.

In any event, the overall religion is not responsible for the actions of the nutters, even when the nutters try to make twisted claims about how their actions are supported by their religion.

So now those grieving the loss of their loved one are using their losses. Just wow.

[guido911]

I posted this story in another thread; however I believe it is important enough to repost it here. Greg Gutfeld wants to open a gay bar next door to this building.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/

And what was the response by a mosque spokesman? Why, its that the bar would offend their sensibilities.

You're free to open whatever you like. If you won't consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you're not going to build dialog

Yep, their sensibilities apparently important, whereas those that lost loved ones on 9/11, not so much.

[we vs us]

I posted this story in another thread; however I believe it is important enough to repost it here. Greg Gutfeld wants to open a gay bar next door to this building.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/

And what was the response by a mosque spokesman? Why, its that the bar would offend their sensibilities.

Yep, their sensibilities apparently important, whereas those that lost loved ones on 9/11, not so much.

I hope his investors have deeeeep pockets.  They're gonna need some serious operating capital to keep that place afloat.  Cause they sure as hell won't have any customers. 

Also, can you cite the community center's response?  I don't find it linked anywhere in your article.  And that's mostly because I don't think there was a response at all. 

[we vs us]

One voice curiously silent through all this is that of 9/11 victim's families and survivors.  I'd like to hear what they think before I press too harsh of a judgement on the issue.  The tinfoil hatter in me says we need not look at this on face value as another peaceful mosque since Islam has a history of building mosques on the site of great victories.  The symbolism it could represent would be repugnant to a lot of people who chose to take that view of it.  

The claims are that Imam Feisal thinks American law should more closely resemble Shariah law.

The radio was ablaze with this this morning, well it has been for weeks, but since POTUS Obama finally spoke up, it's more newsworthy today.

I've seen scant accounts of the Imam through the MSM, so it's left pretty much to individual bloggers to investigate what he's all about, here's one take:

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/08/everything-you-need-to-know-about-imam-feisal-abdul-rauf-ground-zero-mosque-imam/

 
Here's a group 9/11 families that's for the mosque. According to TPM it represents close to 250 families. 

[Hoss]

 
Here's a group 9/11 families that's for the mosque. According to TPM it represents close to 250 families. 

Wait for it.  How long will it be before Gweed declares these families 'UnAmerican'?

[guido911]

I hope his investors have deeeeep pockets.  They're gonna need some serious operating capital to keep that place afloat.  Cause they sure as hell won't have any customers. 

Also, can you cite the community center's response?  I don't find it linked anywhere in your article.  And that's mostly because I don't think there was a response at all. 

Here is the link which contains the tweet from the Park 51 people,

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/10/ground-zero-mosque-spokesman-to-gutfeld-your-gay-bar-wont-build-dialogue-because-it-doesnt-consider-our-sensibilities/

[RecycleMichael]

I believe this building (two blocks away) will be a shining example of one of our greatest freedoms.

[guido911]

 
Here's a group 9/11 families that's for the mosque. According to TPM it represents close to 250 families. 

And that's wonderful. They are part of the debate now.