The New Mosque

[guido911]

How far is "a bit"?

another block?  block and a half?  Two blocks?  A mile?  across the river in New Jersey?

How far?

Not for me to say. Again, I do not care if they build it right there or a half mile away. I am only speaking out in favor of those that are speaking out.

[nathanm]

"We've got to take into consideration the sentiments of the people. What difference does it make if it is there or five miles from there? It's not going to make any difference," Nizami said. "If the purpose was to get Islam and the West relations going together, this has brought more division actually."

So this guy thinks it should be in Harlem, not where there's a significant need (downtown) for more room to worship and a building is available? Interesting.

I also find it interesting he refers to Faisal as an extremist, when even Fox News called him a moderate late last year when this issue first came up.

[guido911]

Chill out, dude. 

You chill out. I am fed up with people like Nate calling those that want the mosque built elsewhere xenophobes or bigots.

[Conan71]

So this guy thinks it should be in Harlem, not where there's a significant need (downtown) for more room to worship and a building is available? Interesting.

I also find it interesting he refers to Faisal as an extremist, when even Fox News called him a moderate late last year when this issue first came up.

You proved the point of the very first sentence of my post.

[nathanm]

You chill out. I am fed up with people like Nate calling those that want the mosque built elsewhere xenophobes or bigots.

I never said that. I said that the people behind the furor (Stop Islamiciation of America, and Pamela Geller in particular) are xenophobes and bigots.

Nor did I say that my argument trumps what our OKC Muslim friend thinks. I just find it interesting that he's trotting out some of the right wing spin on this.

[Conan71]

I never said that. I said that the people behind the furor (Stop Islamiciation of America, and Pamela Geller in particular) are xenophobes and bigots.

Nor did I say that my argument trumps what our OKC Muslim friend thinks. I just find it interesting that he's trotting out some of the right wing spin on this.

Keep on diggin'

[nathanm]

Keep on diggin'

Keep on assuming you're clairvoyant.

[Conan71]

Keep on assuming you're clairvoyant.

Last word freak  

[nathanm]

[custosnox]

Merits of what argument?  Oh, the same stuff repeated over and over by others in this thread or the talking points by left talking heads? Sorry CF, that's not argument. That's laziness. As for "legal standing"? Please. You forgot I guess that I am also a lawyer and I will not be lectured by you about the "standing" of people speaking out and who simply want the mosque moved a bit away from ground zero.

As for the straw man, if you cannot see that this issue is not about freedom of religion but rather that the mosque supporters showing a tiny bit of respect for the sensitivity of the 9/11 victims, I feel for you. Quite frankly, just as you can say that some want to "block all things islamic" or that that doofus nate can call those wanting the mosque moved (which is what they want by the way) "xenophobic", I guess I can call you and he "anti 9/11 victim".

You talk about straw men, yet all that you have holding up your argument is the sensativities of some of the family members of those lost.  When it comes down to it, I'm sure that no matter what is built you would intrude on someones sensativities to their personal loss there.  After all, isn't it insensative to the muslims that died there to deny, or protest against a building that is meant for others to practices their religion when it is being built near where they died at?  Or are the considerations of sensativities only important when they belong to those of the same religion as you?

[guido911]

You talk about straw men, yet all that you have holding up your argument is the sensativities of some of the family members of those lost.  When it comes down to it, I'm sure that no matter what is built you would intrude on someones sensativities to their personal loss there.  After all, isn't it insensative to the muslims that died there to deny, or protest against a building that is meant for others to practices their religion when it is being built near where they died at?  Or are the considerations of sensativities only important when they belong to those of the same religion as you?

It's not just the 9/11 victims' rights to speak out that I support; it's also that a clear majority of New Yorkers want the mosque moved and I support their right to speak out.  Do you have a problem with people that oppose something, whether rightly or wrongly, to speak out?

As for your "straw man" accusation, could you clarify that? Are you accusing me of an anti-Islam bias based on the fact that I am Christian? If so, you are way off.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Guido,
The truth hurts.  And the closer to home, the more it hurts.  Why would one be at all concerned that they move the mosque somewhere else if they weren't xenophobes and bigots?

And how far away would be far enough??

[Conan71]

Guido,
The truth hurts.  And the closer to home, the more it hurts.  Why would one be at all concerned that they move the mosque somewhere else if they weren't xenophobes and bigots?

And how far away would be far enough??

Even fellow Muslims are saying they should consider building this elsewhere. I suppose they are xenophobes, bigots, and religious intollerants as well?  Or are they listening to too much Murodoch/Republicontin/RWRE... blech...

"“This is not a humble Islamic statement. A mosque such as this is actually a political structure that casts a shadow over a cemetery, over hallowed ground. 9/11 was the beginning of a kinetic war, it is not an opportunity for cultural exchange. It was the beginning of a conflict with those who want to destroy our way of life,” Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, told The Daily Caller.

“I am in no way looking to infringe on First Amendment issues. I approach this as a Muslim that is dedicated to reform,” he said.

Jasser cited the Quranic verse, “Be considerate when you debate with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians],” and said that Muslims backing the project should be introspective during this month of Ramadan.

“From sunup to sundown Muslims are fasting and working on putting our needs tertiary to our God and our country, not what we need. They are abandoning these principles and saying, ‘Well, this is what we need and we are victims if you don’t let us do this. And we can do it, so we are going to.’ I think that is un-Islamic. That verse is one that teaches Muslims not only to be respectful but to actually treat equally other religions.”

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2010/08/18/some-muslims-oppose-gr-zero-mosque/

[guido911]

Guido,
The truth hurts.  And the closer to home, the more it hurts.  Why would one be at all concerned that they move the mosque somewhere else if they weren't xenophobes and bigots?

And how far away would be far enough??

I answered that question a little earlier today.

[Conan71]

Here's some more bigoted, xenophobic, uneducated Muslims chiming in:

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=85080

""For most Americans, 9/11 remains as an open wound, and anything associated with Islam, even for Americans who want to understand Islam — to have an Islamic center with so much publicity is like rubbing salt in open wounds," said Akbar Ahmed, professor of Islamic studies at American University, a former Pakistani ambassador to Britain and author of "Journey Into America, The Challenge of Islam." He said the space should include a synagogue and a church so it will be truly interfaith.

Abdul Cader Asmal, past president of the Islamic Council of New England, an umbrella group for more than 15 Islamic centers, said some opponents of the $100 million, 13-story project are indeed anti-Muslim. But he said many Americans have genuine, understandable questions about Islam and extremism.

In light of those fears, and the opposition of many relatives of 9/11 victims, Asmal said organizers should dramatically scale back the project to just a simple mosque, despite their legal right to construct what they want.

"Winning in the court of law is not going to help improve the image of Muslims nationwide," said Asmal, a Massachusetts physician.

"You have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary American people."

Asra Nomani, author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam," said American Muslims have not fully confronted extremism in Islam, which makes her worried that any mosque has the potential to become a haven for those with rigid views.

"Yes, there is prejudice against Muslims in the modern day, but also Muslims in the modern day have an extremist problem," said Nomani, who backs the idea of the mosque in principle but believes the feelings of families who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11 attacks should trump the plan.

Few American Muslims who lost relatives in the terrorist strikes have spoken out, but those who have are also divided.

Talat Hamdani, a Muslim whose son Salman, a New York police cadet and emergency medical technician, was killed on Sept. 11, supports the proposal. "I'm not fighting for a mosque. I'm fighting for my rights," she said.

By contrast, Neda Bolourchi of Los Angeles, a native of Iran whose mother was on one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, opposes the plan.

"I fear that over time, it will cultivate a fundamentalist version of the Muslim faith, embracing those who share such beliefs and hating those who do not," she wrote in a Washington Post op-ed. "To the supporters of this new Islamic cultural center, I must ask: Build your ideological monument somewhere else, far from my mother's grave, and let her rest."