OSU-Tulsa/TCC - one campus?

[SXSW]

As many of you know I'm a big proponent of higher education in Tulsa.  I have been amazed by the tranformation of the TU and OU-Tulsa campuses this past decade.  The OSU campus, however, has only added one new building, the ATRC, in the past decade.  It's still a suburban 'corporate campus' north of downtown.  What would it take to have OSU instead focus on building its campus around TCC-Metro?  There are already several buildings in place including the very nice Center for Creativity and plenty of room around the campus for expansion of OSU on the surface lots.  TCC and OSU could work together to reduce redundancy in class offerings with TCC offering more beginner undergraduate classes and OSU focusing more on upper level undergrad and graduate programs.  They could share things like a larger fitness/recreation center, auditorium/theatre, classrooms, labs, etc.  The south downtown location is also closer to OSU's medical center and health sciences center across the river.  I could see new student apartments similar to Renaissance going up on the vacant lots between Denver and Cheyenne south of 7th to serve TCC/OSU and the medical center.  The Greenwood campus would then be converted solely to a research campus for OSU.  Probably not happening but interesting to think about, and would be a good way to get rid of the surface parking that plagues that area of downtown.

[TheArtist]

  I believe I heard on the radio the other day that for the first time "non traditional" students now outnumber traditional students.  Many people going to college now are; a little older, and or have jobs and even first careers, and or have a spouse or kids, etc.  such that they need to either be in a city so that they can "live their lives" or they will do some of their school online. 

  YET, we watch as huge sums of money and new programs go to say OSU in Stillwater, where most non traditional students can't go.  And I bet a lot of traditonal students would rather go to a university in a vibrant urban area versus the sticks to boot.

   I really wish the Regents, Pickens, whoever decides these things would shuffle a little more attention to OSU Tulsa.  I think it hurts both OSU and Tulsa to not do so.         

   One way or the other, Tulsa will eventually evolve and grow some very attractive University offerings to the point where most students from the area, will stay in the area, versus going to OSU Stillwater.  And I believe that most of the students that go to the university in Stillwater come from the Tulsa area.  Its my opinion that the writing has been on the wall for some time that if OSU Stillwater wants to maximize its potential, it would be very wise to focus a lot more on Tulsa.  20-30 years from now people may be looking back on whats been going on and ask "What were they thinking with all that focus on the Stillwater campus and not Tulsa?"

[SXSW]

  I believe I heard on the radio the other day that for the first time "non traditional" students now outnumber traditional students.  Many people going to college now are; a little older, and or have jobs and even first careers, and or have a spouse or kids, etc.  such that they need to either be in a city so that they can "live their lives" or they will do some of their school online. 

  YET, we watch as huge sums of money and new programs go to say OSU in Stillwater, where most non traditional students can't go.  And I bet a lot of traditonal students would rather go to a university in a vibrant urban area versus the sticks to boot.

   I really wish the Regents, Pickens, whoever decides these things would shuffle a little more attention to OSU Tulsa.  I think it hurts both OSU and Tulsa to not do so.         

   One way or the other, Tulsa will eventually evolve and grow some very attractive University offerings to the point where most students from the area, will stay in the area, versus going to OSU Stillwater.  And I believe that most of the students that go to the university in Stillwater come from the Tulsa area.  Its my opinion that the writing has been on the wall for some time that if OSU Stillwater wants to maximize its potential, it would be very wise to focus a lot more on Tulsa.  20-30 years from now people may be looking back on whats been going on and ask "What were they thinking with all that focus on the Stillwater campus and not Tulsa?"

I don't think they will ever shift the focus from their Stillwater campus as they already have so much invested in it.  I do think it would be wise for OSU to focus more of its graduate and post-graduate programs in areas like business, engineering, sciences, education, architecture, etc. in Tulsa.  Many students would still go to Stillwater for their undergraduate studies but would come (or return) to Tulsa for grad school.  They already do this for health sciences, which could be expanded as well.  The biggest thing that OSU could do is to also focus its non-agriculture research in Tulsa.  OU has developed top-notch research programs and facilities in Norman and OKC.  It would be nice to see that same commitment from OSU but in Tulsa where more researchers would want to live and work. 

That is why I think it would be better to have the Greenwood campus focus solely on research.  TCC would offer the bulk of undergraduate and lower level classes at its downtown and other campuses while OSU would build new facilities around TCC downtown for upper level, graduate, and post-graduate classes.  This could include a library, student union, recreation center, lab sciences building, and other facilities that TCC doesn't have downtown that could enhance the campus feel.  It already has a somewhat urban feel but could be much more cohesive with more buildings and structured parking.  That area of downtown is also much better positioned for growth and offers better connectivity to surrounding neighborhoods and housing for students, something that is lacking due to the constraints of the Greenwood campus i.e. government housing to the north, 244 to the south, railyards to the east, etc.  It is better situated, IMO, for a daytime research campus while the south downtown location at 10th & Boston is better for a 24/7 campus environment. 

[sgrizzle]

Given that OSU and TCC both have huge plots of land and newly constructed buildings, they aren't moving in our lifetime. Buy a bus and you get the same effect.

[Conan71]

SXSW, unfortunately our best opportunity left the station about 25 years ago.  I wrote an impassioned paper, as a TCC student at the time, that the newly-minted University Center At Tulsa (UCAT) be combined with TCC for a four year public university.  I proposed the combining of campuses and curriculi and calling it Tulsa State University. 

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of it, but UCAT was an odd hybrid of Langston, OSU, and I believe NSU with Jr., Sr. and post-graduate level classes only.  It's what we call OSU Tulsa now. To my knowledge, Tulsa is the largest metro area in the nation without a public four year university which isn't a strange off-shoot of another institution.

As Grizzle said: not in our lifetime, unfortunately.

[sgrizzle]

SXSW, unfortunately our best opportunity left the station about 25 years ago.  I wrote an impassioned paper, as a TCC student at the time, that the newly-minted University Center At Tulsa (UCAT) be combined with TCC for a four year public university.  I proposed the combining of campuses and curriculi and calling it Tulsa State University. 

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of it, but UCAT was an odd hybrid of Langston, OSU, and I believe NSU with Jr., Sr. and post-graduate level classes only.  It's what we call OSU Tulsa now. To my knowledge, Tulsa is the largest metro area in the nation without a public four year university which isn't a strange off-shoot of another institution.

As Grizzle said: not in our lifetime, unfortunately.

UCAT was OSU, OU, NSU and Langston and supposedly OU still "owns" some of the land.

[SXSW]

SXSW, unfortunately our best opportunity left the station about 25 years ago.  I wrote an impassioned paper, as a TCC student at the time, that the newly-minted University Center At Tulsa (UCAT) be combined with TCC for a four year public university.  I proposed the combining of campuses and curriculi and calling it Tulsa State University.  

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of it, but UCAT was an odd hybrid of Langston, OSU, and I believe NSU with Jr., Sr. and post-graduate level classes only.  It's what we call OSU Tulsa now. To my knowledge, Tulsa is the largest metro area in the nation without a public four year university which isn't a strange off-shoot of another institution.

As Grizzle said: not in our lifetime, unfortunately.

I refuse to accept that.  Tulsa needs a strong public university in addition to a strong TU to remain relevant.  There are too many people that support this idea to think it will ever happen.  Though it won't happen overnight.  I personally think the Greenwood campus is the problem, and to an extent the OSU administration.  Combining facilities and programs with TCC is much more efficient and moves OSU to a much better part of downtown with plenty of room to grow.  There can be more synergy with TCC to offer undergrad/lower level classes and for OSU to continue its graduate/health sciences/research focus in Tulsa.  It also opens up the Greenwood campus to be solely dedicated to research.  Look at all the construction at OU's campus at 41st & Yale.  Next time you're in Norman check out what OU has built in just 5 years along Jenkins north of Hwy 9 at its south campus research park.  It's amazing and continues to grow and attract high paying jobs to Norman.  OSU could do the same thing with its existing campus in Greenwood and eventually expand there as well.  I want to see the same commitment from OSU.  The future is in Tulsa, not Stillwater.

[Conan71]

I refuse to accept that.  Tulsa needs a strong public university in addition to a strong TU to remain relevant.  There are too many people that support this idea to think it will ever happen.  Though it won't happen overnight.  I personally think the Greenwood campus is the problem, and to an extent the OSU administration.  Combining facilities and programs with TCC is much more efficient and moves OSU to a much better part of downtown with plenty of room to grow.  There can be more synergy with TCC to offer undergrad/lower level classes and for OSU to continue its graduate/health sciences/research focus in Tulsa.  It also opens up the Greenwood campus to be solely dedicated to research.  If you're in Norman next time check out what OU has built in just 5 years along Jenkins north of Hwy 9.  It's amazing and continues to grow and attract high paying jobs to Norman.  Look at all the construction at OU's campus at 41st & Yale.  OSU could do the same thing with its existing campus in Greenwood and eventually expand there as well.  I want to see the same commitment from OSU.  The future is in Tulsa, not Stillwater.

Aside from the control issues the OSU board of regents has, it would be cost-prohibitive to think about relocating OSU's campus, especially in the current economic climate.  As well, the north side of the IDL needs a shot in the arm and ther's a lot of vacant land available. That land can be aquired much cheaper, and I think would be a better use of those acres of vacant land.  I think OSU has a good commitment to Tulsa, but the idea of combining TCC and OSU is not even remotely realistic.  Someone would have to give up their little fiefdom to make that happen and no one likes to do that.

[SXSW]

In south downtown you could create more of an urban campus.  TCC has been pretty successful doing that with its buildings.  Its parking lots on the other hand...

Basically everything north of 10th would be TCC including their proposed health sciences expansion on the block east of Cincinnati.  OSU would occupy the blocks south of 10th along Boston to Detroit.  Parking would be shared as would some classrooms/facilities but there wouldn't be any overlap in administration or programs offered.  Boston and Cincinnati would be the main north-south routes through campus and would be landscaped and streetscaped as such with wider sidewalks (similar to what TCC has done along Boston between 9th and 10th).  10th would also be a main drag and already is a well-traveled link through that part of downtown. 

10th & Boston could be the center of activity with the existing TCC buildings on the northside while OSU could build a student union and library on the southside.  From that point there are nice views from three directions: north to Boston Ave canyon and BOK Tower, south to Boston Ave church, and west to the domed First Church of Christ, Scientist. 

This would be a really nice urban intersection with lots of pedestrian activity. 


A model to follow would be Portland State University, which has an urban campus that maintains the street grid and connects seamlessly to downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.  It also lots of contemporary architecture which the TCC/OSU campus could have as well.

[SXSW]

TCC is clearly interested in expanding, from the TW:

The number of students enrolled in some area colleges is exploding, according to the schools.

Tulsa Community College is seeing its highest enrollment numbers in its more than 40 year history, according to a statement from the college.

More than 20,000 students are enrolled -- an increase of about 850 students from one year ago, and the fourth straight fall increase.

"With a college our size, consecutive growth over four years is significant," TCC President Tom McKeon said in a statement. "Even with the state's budget constraints, we have worked very hard to offer premier programs at affordable tuition rates."

The increase is in part because of increased enrollment in health programs, particularly certified nursing assistant and home health aide certifications, officials said.

The campus with the largest enrollment increase was the metro location, which has 8 percent more students this year than last fall.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=19&articleid=20100826_19_0_Tenmef324927

[sgrizzle]

There is a huge difference between "expanding" and "spending half a billion dollars to move a perfectly functional college campus 1 mile south so it feels cozy."

[SXSW]

There is a huge difference between "expanding" and "spending half a billion dollars to move a perfectly functional college campus 1 mile south so it feels cozy."

Unless you are going to spend half a billion dollars to build an urban research park anyway (like what OU has done in Norman independent from the main campus) and could use your existing campus for that purpose.  Then it makes sense to vacate the existing campus and build more synergies with a growing TCC downtown.  OSU would have quite the presence in Tulsa with the health sciences/forensics center by the river, OSU Medical Center, its campus next to TCC downtown, and a Greenwood research park.

[TheArtist]

  I don't think the campuses are that far apart anyway, a quick bikeride would do ya.  Add to that a regular trolley/bus of some sort and your good to go.  (look at how far apart many of those campus buildings are in Portland, bout as far as TCC is from OSU Tulsa).

  I could see the TCC metro campus playing a big role in feeding into the OSU Medical and OSU Greenwood campuses and acting, in essence, as if they were part of the same university.  They wouldnt have to actually join together as one university, but could work together more closely (TCC Metro having programs that would feed into the nearby OSU programs)  to the point that, for those programs, they would be for all intents and purposes one university.  They kind of do that anyway now.   It would be nice to see both the TCC Metro and OSU Tulsa campuses expanding and complimenting each other while keeping their own "fiefdoms".