reflections on the elections...

[Conan71]

Koch's money didn't win the election, the sentiment of the voters did.  Koch didn't pay people to vote.

[Cats Cats Cats]

To me the tea party started out as libertarian with Republican's that didn't know what it meant and thought they just invented it (and libertarians).

[Cats Cats Cats]

Teabaggers are not Libertarians. Paul claims to be a teabagger so he gets their support. He's a libertarian just like pops. That said, the voters did probably see him as a teabagger, so you are right that they did manage get a couple of their high profile candidates in. They just lost more than they won.

wevus is right, however, that they did manage to set the tone of the whole thing, with plenty of help from Koch's money, of course. I'm sure he considers it money well spent to have gotten another Paul elected and the dialogue moved even further to the right (well past Republicans historically) even if the rest of his slate didn't fare so well. It's amazing what one can do in two years with a whole lot of money in a down economy. You gotta respect the guy, even if you think he's ruining the country.

I think we need to come up with a new term for the right.  There is the Rand/Ron Paul / Coburn right.  Then there are the rest of the republicans.  Who say they are for "individual rights" and "balancing the budget" but they don't back it up or actually do it.  To me the right just means, spend and spend, don't balance the budget, start a few wars, etc etc.  Bush got elected from when I started paying attention to politics from my 20's to 30's.  (Of course this is the height of republican's to Guido)

[PonderInc]

Another election, another reason to consider moving to another state...

[Conan71]

Another election, another reason to consider moving to another state...

I hear an impaired state is beautiful this time of year.

[nathanm]

Koch's money didn't win the election, the sentiment of the voters did.  Koch didn't pay people to vote.

Koch provided the funding that made it all possible. Without his money, there would have been few organized events. Without his money, there would have been zero cohesive message coming from this thing. It would have looked a lot more like Cindy Sheehan's antics rather than well organized rallies and millions of dollars of campaign ads grossly distorting the facts.

It takes activists to stir your average joes to get off the couch and actually go protest something. It takes TV ads to win elections. This isn't the 30s.

Tea Partiers are the ones saying "keep the government out of my medicare." Libertarians are the ones saying the civil rights act should be repealed, medicare should be abolished, and social security should be privatized. They are at least internally consistent, unlike the Tea Partiers. Unfortunately for the Tea Partiers, what they're going to get if their backers get their way is the latter, not the former. It really is a masterful manipulation.

[carltonplace]

Another election, another reason to consider moving to another state...

Why would you move? You are free to speak only english here and will never have to worry about being smacked down by international or islamic law. Oklahoma is its own nation now.

[we vs us]

Another election, another reason to consider moving to another state...

There's a lot of out of the frying pan, into the fire about that statement.  OK is super-red but no very rich or influential.  Just think about moving to TX:  a super-red state with an economy bigger than most countries in the world. 

[Conan71]

Koch provided the funding that made it all possible. Without his money, there would have been few organized events. Without his money, there would have been zero cohesive message coming from this thing. It would have looked a lot more like Cindy Sheehan's antics rather than well organized rallies and millions of dollars of campaign ads grossly distorting the facts.

It takes activists to stir your average joes to get off the couch and actually go protest something. It takes TV ads to win elections. This isn't the 30s.

Tea Partiers are the ones saying "keep the government out of my medicare." Libertarians are the ones saying the civil rights act should be repealed, medicare should be abolished, and social security should be privatized. They are at least internally consistent, unlike the Tea Partiers. Unfortunately for the Tea Partiers, what they're going to get if their backers get their way is the latter, not the former. It really is a masterful manipulation.

Oh I get it.  Koch is the GOP's George Soros.

Now we can hear about all the crooked connections to oilies in the GOP and Tea Party and all their wealthy bretheren trying to influence government since that's never in play with the Democrats.

[we vs us]

Oh I get it.  Koch is the GOP's George Soros.

Now we can hear about all the crooked connections to oilies in the GOP and Tea Party and all their wealthy bretheren trying to influence government since that's never in play with the Democrats.

So does that nullify the criticism?  

So there're big money guys behind the major movements.  Newsflash!  I'm of the opinion that major movements require big benefactors to be successful, so I'm not as outraged by Koch just as much as I'm not outraged by Soros.  That's how our system's always worked.  

What gets me is the level of accountability and opacity involved here, and on that score Soros and Koch are nowhere in the same league.  Koch is very much behind the scenes and doing some serious string-pullage.  Soros' activities were and are fairly above board.  

It does go to one other thing, though . . . and that's credibility.  The central Tea Party myth is that it's a product of the grass roots and not beholden to entrenched interests.  The Koch bros make that demonstrably untrue.  

EDIT:  and so does Dick Armey.

[guido911]

Here is an article from Drudge re: Soros and the Koch bros.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/you-know-who-was-a-big-loser-in-this-election-george-soros-106640398.html

[GG]

He honored the three term limit in the "contract" as a representative.

And I heard on the radio today (KRMG), that this will be his last term as Senator.  Which will be his 3rd. 

[nathanm]

Oh I get it.  Koch is the GOP's George Soros.

Now we can hear about all the crooked connections to oilies in the GOP and Tea Party and all their wealthy bretheren trying to influence government since that's never in play with the Democrats.

I have never claimed that Democrats are pure innocent souls who never took a dime from a special interest. That would be lunacy. As wevus said before I got back, a lot of people claim the tea party phenomenon is entirely or mostly grass roots, when that is not in fact the case. They are as backed by special interest money as anybody.

[guido911]

I have never claimed that Democrats are pure innocent souls who never took a dime from a special interest. That would be lunacy. As wevus said before I got back, a lot of people claim the tea party phenomenon is entirely or mostly grass roots, when that is not in fact the case. They are as backed by special interest money as anybody.

I never knew I was backed by special interest money when I attended a couple of "tea parties." In fact, I demand to know where my check from the Koch brothers is.

[guido911]

MY EYES!!!! (thanks Drudge)