Now That SQ 744 Has Tanked, What To Do About Common Education

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sounds like oil and airlines.  My company is big and I don't see the 'slacker' approach very much at all.  Like not.

[nathanm]

Are you coming to lunch on Monday with us?

If I manage to get back from Arkansas on Sunday, there's a possibility.

[Conan71]

The TPS is mulling consolidation, imagine that:

"TULSA, Okla. -- The Tulsa Public Schools board is considering a proposal that Superintendent Keith Ballard says could lead to consolidation within the district.

Ballard says the goal of "Project Schoolhouse" is to determine how the district can more efficiently use its money and facilities. He says the issue has to be deal with because the district's financial resources are shrinking because of state funding shortfalls.

He told the Tulsa World the district has already downsized its teaching force and that the smallest schools were hit the hardest as a result. Ballard says he does not know how many Tulsa schools might be closed.

The district now has 41,224 students housed in 90 schools.

Under the proposal, Ballard would present recommendations to the school board in March so that consolidation could be finished by fall 2011."

http://www.koco.com/news/25789284/detail.html

If I'm not mistaken, enrollment is approximately 1/2 what it was in 1980 with more facilities. 

Of course this comes at the expense of the most sacred of political cows: public education.  However, it's proof that if you finally tell government you can't have any more money and actually you have to make do with less, they will find a way to survive, much as we've all had to do the last couple of years.

[patric]

Cut down on vandalism and save electricity by replacing the prison-yard floodlighting with motion detectors.
Just because every school district that has tried it has succeeded doesnt mean that TPS should try...

So many little things we could be doing that could add up, yet we seem to want one big huge panacea.



http://www.culpeperschools.org/FECBA-R3.pdf
http://www.willis.com/Documents/Publications/Services/Pooling/Pooling_Bulletin_School_Security.pdf
http://www.neighborhoodlink.com/SANA/topics/170035

[swake]

The TPS is mulling consolidation, imagine that:

"TULSA, Okla. -- The Tulsa Public Schools board is considering a proposal that Superintendent Keith Ballard says could lead to consolidation within the district.

Ballard says the goal of "Project Schoolhouse" is to determine how the district can more efficiently use its money and facilities. He says the issue has to be deal with because the district's financial resources are shrinking because of state funding shortfalls.

He told the Tulsa World the district has already downsized its teaching force and that the smallest schools were hit the hardest as a result. Ballard says he does not know how many Tulsa schools might be closed.

The district now has 41,224 students housed in 90 schools.

Under the proposal, Ballard would present recommendations to the school board in March so that consolidation could be finished by fall 2011."

http://www.koco.com/news/25789284/detail.html

If I'm not mistaken, enrollment is approximately 1/2 what it was in 1980 with more facilities. 

Of course this comes at the expense of the most sacred of political cows: public education.  However, it's proof that if you finally tell government you can't have any more money and actually you have to make do with less, they will find a way to survive, much as we've all had to do the last couple of years.

I'm not saying the some consolidation of schools is or isn't a good idea, but I question what is behind this. These articles are all very misleading. From what I have found TPS enrollment did peak in the 1960's at 85,000 students and did drop for years after that. But TPS closed a bunch of schools in the mid to late 1980s due to that drop. And since the 80s enrollment has been steady. TPS is actually a little larger than it was in 1989. In 1989 TPS had 41,000 students, today there are 41,300 students.

I get that some facilities are outdated and there could be some savings in consolidation. But why mislead people into what the situation facing schools is. These articles from multiple sources (which means it's TPS framing the argument) all make it sound like enrollment has been steadily dropping since the 1960s and that simply isn't true. Enrollment fell during a period 30-40 years ago that ended with a lot of schools being closed. But since those closings enrollment has been steady for the last 25 years.

Article from 1989 talking about a district with 41,000 students:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?no=subj&articleid=84998&archive=yes

[RecycleMichael]

I'm not saying the some consolidation of schools is or isn't a good idea, but I question what is behind this.

I think it is all money related. Yes, the amount of students has been stabilized, but the costs have not. There is a projected shortfall next year when Federal dollars go away.

I think the district is being pro-active and saying they need a plan to be more efficient with their limited dollars. Isn't that what we want all levels of government to do?

[Conan71]

I think it is all money related. Yes, the amount of students has been stabilized, but the costs have not. There is a projected shortfall next year when Federal dollars go away.

I think the district is being pro-active and saying they need a plan to be more efficient with their limited dollars. Isn't that what we want all levels of government to do?

Some thinking needs to be adjusted as well.  I've found it hard to get specific numbers listed in studies or I'm looking in the wrong area for some results.  What I can find will mention improvement but does not quantify it.  Studies I've managed to find claim minorities and K through 3 benefit most from reduced class sizes.  Instead of mandating this throughout districts, why not target schools in predominately minority areas for smaller class sizes and programs in K-3 in elementary schools.  It does stand to reason that in poorer areas, if parents are less likely to mentor their children, we should attempt to provide better mentorship and more individual attention.  I can also buy the idea that children need more individual attention when they are learning basic skills which they will use throughout their educational careers.

For some reason we've tried to apply the smaller classroom model across the entire common education range and it's created a lot of inefficiency and expense.

One other intersting note is that HB 1017 sought to improve the quality of education in Oklahoma.  It was claimed increased teacher's pay would help accomplish this goal.  Over 19 years, we've almost doubled the average teacher's pay yet we claim to still have some of the worst results in the country.  Can anyone else think of a private sector industry in Oklahoma where the average pay almost doubled in 19 years?

[RecycleMichael]

Can anyone else think of a private sector industry in Oklahoma where the average pay almost doubled in 19 years?

The federal minimum wage was $3.37 in the summer of 1987 and is now $7.25. That is more than double in 23 years.

[Gaspar]

The federal minimum wage was $3.37 in the summer of 1987 and is now $7.25. That is more than double in 23 years.

. . .and if anything, the quality of my McRib has diminished!

[RecycleMichael]

It must be harder to find McAnimals these days.

[Conan71]

The federal minimum wage was $3.37 in the summer of 1987 and is now $7.25. That is more than double in 23 years.

Minimum wage also stagnated at $3.35 from 1981 to 1990, it was accelerated, and needed to be.  I also agree that teacher's pay needed to be more than it was in 1989 at an average of around $22K.  I'm simply puzzled why it is, we've almost doubled it, yet that still seems to be one of the main excuses why our public education system in Oklahoma sucks is lacking.

How about jobs which require a minimum of a bachelor's degree, same as teachers?  I don't think as a whole baccalaureate holders doubled down the last 20 years.

[RecycleMichael]

I'm simply puzzled why it is, we've almost doubled it, yet that still seems to be one of the main excuses why our public education system in Oklahoma sucks is lacking.

I don't believe I have ever used teacher pay to complain. I believe it is overall education spending that holds us back. I want better technology in our schools. Our PTA buys the computers for my children's schools. We parents hawk wrapping paper and over-priced chocolate to our co-workers so our schools can have enough computers for a class at a time.

I also love the smart boards our PTA bought. They are super tools in education today. I also support more arts and physical fitness programs in our schools. Many elementary schools share a PE teacher with another school.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Misdirection.

Minimum wage went up about 50% for 25 years. (1983 to 2008).  Then another 30% since then. 

And the real, adjusted rate peaked in 1968.  In 2010 dollars, it was the equivalent of $10.10.  Or another 30% raise from today.

So, US corporations have not only been the beneficiaries of massive increases in worker productivity - the largest in the world for decades - but have also been given a windfall of a true reduction in labor rates of about 30%.  No wonder all those CEO's are so rich!
But somehow it is all the fault of the UAW!  Riiiigggggghhhhhtttttt!

And the Murdochian Warp and Lie Machine just keeps on rolling!!  (Think 'Locomotive Breath' by Jethro Tull.)

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

[Conan71]

I don't believe I have ever used teacher pay to complain. I believe it is overall education spending that holds us back. I want better technology in our schools. Our PTA buys the computers for my children's schools. We parents hawk wrapping paper and over-priced chocolate to our co-workers so our schools can have enough computers for a class at a time.

I also love the smart boards our PTA bought. They are super tools in education today. I also support more arts and physical fitness programs in our schools. Many elementary schools share a PE teacher with another school.  

I never thought the chocolate was over-priced  

You might not have complained about teacher pay, but it's usually one of the first solutions suggested when problems in education come up in conversation.  It's also heavily used to promote bills like HB 1017 and SQ 744. HB 1017 was a pretty responsible piece of legislation and did bring up our standards as well as provide accountability and demand results.  

Looking at the breakdown of funding mechanisms since it went into affect it's disappointing to see that gaming/tobacco  compacts and corporate taxes have amounted to a little less than 10% of total reciepts:

20 YEARS OF REVENUES

Personal income tax: $3.37 billion

Corporate income tax: $728.45 million

Sales tax: $2.89 billion

Use tax: $206.36 million

Other voter approved contributions (tribal gaming, tobacco, horse track, license tags, estate and gas taxes): $5.14 million

Total: $7.7 billion

http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/education-systems-institutions-early/14319339-1.html

More than anything I'm disappointed that tobacco and gaming have not contributed more.  I have a sinking suspicion we could have had a whole lot more funding collected for various state needs if it were not for the explosion of casinos over the last ten or so years.  It's stifled sales tax revenue as every dollar spent at the casinos costs the state 4.5 cents in lost sales tax revenue.  Far as I know, the tribes do not pay a penny in sales tax on goods they use in the casinos.  

[swake]

I never thought the chocolate was over-priced  

You might not have complained about teacher pay, but it's usually one of the first solutions suggested when problems in education come up in conversation.  It's also heavily used to promote bills like HB 1017 and SQ 744. HB 1017 was a pretty responsible piece of legislation and did bring up our standards as well as provide accountability and demand results.  

Looking at the breakdown of funding mechanisms since it went into affect it's disappointing to see that gaming/tobacco  compacts and corporate taxes have amounted to a little less than 10% of total reciepts:

20 YEARS OF REVENUES

Personal income tax: $3.37 billion

Corporate income tax: $728.45 million

Sales tax: $2.89 billion

Use tax: $206.36 million

Other voter approved contributions (tribal gaming, tobacco, horse track, license tags, estate and gas taxes): $5.14 million

Total: $7.7 billion

http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/education-systems-institutions-early/14319339-1.html

More than anything I'm disappointed that tobacco and gaming have not contributed more.  I have a sinking suspicion we could have had a whole lot more funding collected for various state needs if it were not for the explosion of casinos over the last ten or so years.  It's stifled sales tax revenue as every dollar spent at the casinos costs the state 4.5 cents in lost sales tax revenue.  Far as I know, the tribes do not pay a penny in sales tax on goods they use in the casinos.  

Conan, where does the money go that's spent at a casino?