The SQ lawsuits are starting.

[Hoss]

There's a fear of greater access because of our leaky borders and piss poor immigration control.  Voter fraud has existed as long as there have been democracies.  What's the big issue of carrying a simple card which says you are elligible to vote?

Voting isn't simply a right, it's also a privelege.

We need to watch that thinking though.  While I agree with the voter ID issue, to state that voting is a 'privilege', even in concert with it being a right, reminds me of why our forefathers left Britain in the first place.  We shouldn't have to feel 'privileged' to be part of the democratic process.

[CoffeeBean]

There's a fear of greater access because of our leaky borders and piss poor immigration control.  Voter fraud has existed as long as there have been democracies.  What's the big issue of carrying a simple card which says you are elligible to vote?

I think you make my point.  Nobody is calling into question the integrity of our elections, and by your own account, "voter fraud has existed as long as there have been democracies."  I don't think throngs of illegals are pouring over our borders to cast a ballot, and I don't think that a person determined to commit voter fraud will be discouraged by "carrying a simple card". 

Just more fear-mongering IMO. 

[patric]

They did first arrive in Broken Bow, Oklahoma.

Deep Geek. 

Now, the suit challenging the "prevention of the takeover by Sharia law" likely has merit, not because it was ugly, divisive and hateful fear-mongering, but because it was redundant. 

[Conan71]

We need to watch that thinking though.  While I agree with the voter ID issue, to state that voting is a 'privilege', even in concert with it being a right, reminds me of why our forefathers left Britain in the first place.  We shouldn't have to feel 'privileged' to be part of the democratic process.

I disagree.  I feel very priveleged to have been born to a family in the United States and not some third world shithole Democracy.  Perhaps my parents spent far too much time emphasizing to me how sacred some of our freedoms are and that I should stop and really appreciate them every now and then.

Look, (and this is addressing Coffee Bean as well) I don't go to sleep at night worrying about illegal aliens exploiting our polling system, I'm simply commenting on why I think laws like this get crafted in the first place. 

Many of us are simply wired to think that if you are reluctant to show an ID then you must be hiding something.  I don't have a problem showing identification when it's required to prove I'm not committing fraud or theft in a financial transaction, I don't have a problem showing it to prove citizenship, and I don't have a problem showing it if I've been caught breaking a traffic law.  So I really fail to see how a voter ID creates a hardship on anyone, and why there are so many advocates for ID-less voting.

How many of you must use an ID card to enter your place of business?  Why don't you have a problem with that?  Isn't that awfully invasive of your employer to be able to track your moves with that?

[Hoss]

I disagree.  I feel very priveleged to have been born to a family in the United States and not some third world shithole Democracy.  Perhaps my parents spent far too much time emphasizing to me how sacred some of our freedoms are and that I should stop and really appreciate them every now and then.

Look, (and this is addressing Coffee Bean as well) I don't go to sleep at night worrying about illegal aliens exploiting our polling system, I'm simply commenting on why I think laws like this get crafted in the first place. 

Many of us are simply wired to think that if you are reluctant to show an ID then you must be hiding something.  I don't have a problem showing identification when it's required to prove I'm not committing fraud or theft in a financial transaction, I don't have a problem showing it to prove citizenship, and I don't have a problem showing it if I've been caught breaking a traffic law.  So I really fail to see how a voter ID creates a hardship on anyone, and why there are so many advocates for ID-less voting.

How many of you must use an ID card to enter your place of business?  Why don't you have a problem with that?  Isn't that awfully invasive of your employer to be able to track your moves with that?

I understand your point; my point was that we shouldn't have to feel like we should belong to a certain class of citizen in the USA to feel the 'privilege' of voting.  Some people say that, and I remember my history when women didn't have that 'privilege' and African-Americans didn't have that 'privilege'.  That's what I'm getting at.  If you are born, or are a naturalized US Citizen, you shouldn't have to feel like it's a privilege to vote.  It's your right and your duty to do so.

[CoffeeBean]

Many of us are simply wired to think that if you are reluctant to show an ID then you must be hiding something.  I don't have a problem showing identification when it's required to prove I'm not committing fraud or theft in a financial transaction, I don't have a problem showing it to prove citizenship, and I don't have a problem showing it if I've been caught breaking a traffic law.  So I really fail to see how a voter ID creates a hardship on anyone, and why there are so many advocates for ID-less voting.

An ID is already required to register to vote, and you can't vote unless you register.  This SQ does absolutely nothing to guard against voter fraud, but it does gin up fear that some unknown monolith is out to steal your America.

Again, completely legal, but totally pointless, unless your point is the creation of fear.      

[nathanm]

I also heard that CAIR is filing a lawsuit against the SQ that bans judges from using foreign law an sharia law. If you want to use sharia law then you are in the wrong country and if you want a judge to cite Mexico's, France or Britain's laws then you are in the wrong country.

Well, if you want to make it so contracts written in foreign countries are unenforceable here, it's a great law.

[Red Arrow]

An ID is already required to register to vote, and you can't vote unless you register.  

You have to pass a driver's test to prove you know the rules and can operate the machinery.

Why carry a driver's license?

[nathanm]

Why carry a driver's license?

In practice, you don't need to these days, unless you're driving through podunk towns without computers or out of state. The Troopers can look up your DL and your insurance now.

If your goal is to secure elections, showing ID to vote doesn't really help. The same thing could be accomplished without restricting some people's access to the vote by using computers to display the voter's photograph so that poll workers can verify identity or gathering some sort of other biometric data at registration time. (a fingerprint, iris scan, whatever)

I still think it's all a bunch of crap anyway until someone can point to voting fraud here in Oklahoma that would have been averted by checking IDs.

Edited to add: Oh, and Conan, I don't have to show ID to go to work. If I did, I'd fire the client. In my daily life, I don't have a need to show anyone my identification. This isn't the damn Soviet Union. If someone asks me to show ID to use my credit card, I tell 'em no. There is a signature on the back they are more than welcome to compare to the signature I gave them on their little electronic thingie or the paper slip. The only people that get to see my ID are the employees at my bank when I'm withdrawing large sums of cash and police officers on the rare occasion I'm stopped. Well, that and the guy at the liquor store standing between me and a Marshall's, but that's for Marshall's.

Thankfully, I don't fly commercial any more, so showing off my ID to the TSA goons isn't an issue.

[Townsend]

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/political/elections_local/lawsuit-to-be-filed-against-sharia-law-state-question

Lawsuit to be filed against Sharia Law state question

The Center on American-Islamic Relations or CAIR is organizing a news conference at the state Capitol on Thursday afternoon.

The group says it's supporting a citizen who is filing a federal lawsuit regarding a constitutional amendment Oklahomans passed on Tuesday

These questions are going to be pricey.

"FIX OUT STREETS!"  "No, wait, defend our paranoia."

[CoffeeBean]

Rick Tepker, professor at the OU College of Law on the Sharia ban:

"Many of us who understand the law are scratching our heads this morning, laughing so we don't cry," he said. "I would like to see Oklahoma politicians explain if this means that the courts can no longer consider the Ten Commandments. Isn't that a precept of another culture and another nation? The result of this is that judges aren't going to know when and how they can look at sources of American law that were international law in origin."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/03/law-professor-ban-on-sharia-law-a-mess/

[guido911]

Rick Tepker, professor at the OU College of Law on the Sharia ban:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/03/law-professor-ban-on-sharia-law-a-mess/

I have literally written more than a thousand legal briefs and I cannot recall ever mentioning international law. Most state and federal jurisprudential authority is so settled that its source, be it international or even religious originated, is lost.

[Conan71]

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/political/elections_local/lawsuit-to-be-filed-against-sharia-law-state-question

Lawsuit to be filed against Sharia Law state question


These questions are going to be pricey.

"FIX OUT STREETS!"  "No, wait, defend our paranoia."

I suppose you could fix a cost to defending it, but it's essentially attornies who are already on state payroll getting paid regardless of what case they are working on.  It's sort of like a corporation saying it cost them $2mm to defend a lawsuit using in-house counsel.

[Townsend]

I suppose you could fix a cost to defending it, but it's essentially attornies who are already on state payroll getting paid regardless of what case they are working on.  It's sort of like a corporation saying it cost them $2mm to defend a lawsuit using in-house counsel.

I'd take that bet.

[Conan71]

An ID is already required to register to vote, and you can't vote unless you register.  This SQ does absolutely nothing to guard against voter fraud, but it does gin up fear that some unknown monolith is out to steal your America.

Again, completely legal, but totally pointless, unless your point is the creation of fear.      

I'd pointed out yesterday that if I were so inclined I could vote 20 to 30 times on election day going precinct to precinct without an ID.  There really would be no point to it for me, simply saying that without an ID it's very possible.  I'm simply puzzled and amused at the resistance of some in wanting to ensure inelligible people can't vote.

Nathan- I have to show my ID all the time going in and out of prospective customer's facilities, as well as signing a permanent log book.  It translates to $$ in my pocket so I have zero problem with it.  Same with a clerk wanting to see my ID with a debit card.  It helps protect me from fraud even though their intent is to protect their employer.  One thing I don't do is give out my phone number when asked by a store clerk.  A clerk at Gordman's wanted it a few weeks ago and it was not in context of wanting to hook up I'm quite sure since FMC was with me.