Portland Contemplates Its Navel

[Gaspar]

In 2005 Portland's liberal leaders refused to allow its police to coordinate with the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force as a protest against Bush.




The JTTF apparently did just fine without them.

I wonder if they will issue a Thank You letter?

[patric]

In 2005 Portland's liberal leaders refused to allow its police to coordinate with the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force as a protest against Bush.
The JTTF apparently did just fine without them.
I wonder if they will issue a Thank You letter?

So are you saying they set this kid up as retaliation?
He was 9 years old at 9/11...
They built the "bomb" put the detonator in his hand and told him to push the button.

Theater.

[Hoss]

So are you saying they set this kid up as retaliation?
He was 9 years old at 9/11...
They built the "bomb" put the detonator in his hand and told him to push the button.

Theater.

Consider the source.  That's been a fairly popular theme around here these days...

[Conan71]

In 2005 Portland's liberal leaders refused to allow its police to coordinate with the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force as a protest against Bush.




The JTTF apparently did just fine without them.

I wonder if they will issue a Thank You letter?

He looks like something out of RuPaul's Drag Race

[we vs us]

He looks suspiciously Jersey Shore-y to me.

[Gaspar]

So are you saying they set this kid up as retaliation?
He was 9 years old at 9/11...
They built the "bomb" put the detonator in his hand and told him to push the button.

Theater.

No.  They are now reconsidering their position as it relates to coordinating with the FBI.
I am thankful that we now have an organization capable of preventing incidents like this.

[Ed W]

Portland was leary of involvement with the federal anti-terrorism units unless there were safeguards in place against profiling based on ethnicity or religion.  The feds wouldn't offer such safeguards, so the city declined involvement.  As we now know, the federal government was conducting wide-spread illegal wiretapping without any judicial oversight.  So, while the city of Portland may have provided the authoritarian right with a convenient whipping boy, the reality is that they were truly adhering to the very foundation of the principles of our democracy.

But that also brings up an interesting question.  How did the anti-terrorism task force come to discover this young man?  Apparently he was exchanging emails with a known terrorist organization, so the assumption is that the feds were reading his mail or they have a source inside that org.  Whether they did so legally remains to be seen, but it also bring up a simple rebuttal to the assertion that Portland was somehow culpable in this.  As far as I'm aware, no American city has the ability to penetrate a foreign terrorist organization, and if they want to do a wiretap, it has to be conducted under the appropriate laws. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Now they have figured out how to stop incidents like this, will they be able to stop instigating incidents like this?  


As we knew THEN, they were conducting wide-spread illegal wiretapping - as admitted to and bragged about by the Bush who was President at the time. 

[Gaspar]

Now they have figured out how to stop incidents like this, will they be able to stop instigating incidents like this?  


As we knew THEN, they were conducting wide-spread illegal wiretapping - as admitted to and bragged about by the Bush who was President at the time. 

. . .and you think they discovered Mohamed's intentions how?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Good question.  It will be interesting to see.

I suspect it was by monitoring something, somewhere - probably internet and phone.  Those would seem to be the more common methods today.

[Gaspar]

But that also brings up an interesting question.  How did the anti-terrorism task force come to discover this young man?  Apparently he was exchanging emails with a known terrorist organization, so the assumption is that the feds were reading his mail or they have a source inside that org.  Whether they did so legally remains to be seen, but it also bring up a simple rebuttal to the assertion that Portland was somehow culpable in this.  As far as I'm aware, no American city has the ability to penetrate a foreign terrorist organization, and if they want to do a wiretap, it has to be conducted under the appropriate laws. 

Communications in and out of this country is monitored, not by guys sitting in a room with headphones on, but by a computer system that identifies combinations of words, phrases and letters.  Transmitted images are also scanned for patterns that represent embedded messages, text or diagrams. If a message or conversation is flagged it is intercepted, monitored, or recorded rumor has it (wink wink).

I had the honor last year of watching a member of TU's Cyber Security program show me how he could hack one of our business computers (as a service).  We discussed secure methods of data encryption and got off subject discussing the NSA.  He said that in the IS community this is simply understood.

[Conan71]

Portland was leary of involvement with the federal anti-terrorism units unless there were safeguards in place against profiling based on ethnicity or religion.  The feds wouldn't offer such safeguards, so the city declined involvement.  As we now know, the federal government was conducting wide-spread illegal wiretapping without any judicial oversight.  So, while the city of Portland may have provided the authoritarian right with a convenient whipping boy, the reality is that they were truly adhering to the very foundation of the principles of our democracy.

But that also brings up an interesting question.  How did the anti-terrorism task force come to discover this young man?  Apparently he was exchanging emails with a known terrorist organization, so the assumption is that the feds were reading his mail or they have a source inside that org.  Whether they did so legally remains to be seen, but it also bring up a simple rebuttal to the assertion that Portland was somehow culpable in this.  As far as I'm aware, no American city has the ability to penetrate a foreign terrorist organization, and if they want to do a wiretap, it has to be conducted under the appropriate laws. 

If we use ill-gotten inteligence to stop a guy from detonating a bomb in the middle of Times Square on NYE, the Super Bowl, the next Presidential innauguration, or anywhere there are thousands who could be hurt are we really going to care if that intel was gathered by legal or illegal means?

[heironymouspasparagus]

That pretty much is the question of what we want to be, isn't it?

The logical extension of that is to become the world of "1984".  Feel like it's getting closer?

Oh, wait, just let me throw out one of the favorite old cliche's;  "rule of law".  Anyone remember that??

[we vs us]

If we use ill-gotten inteligence to stop a guy from detonating a bomb in the middle of Times Square on NYE, the Super Bowl, the next Presidential innauguration, or anywhere there are thousands who could be hurt are we really going to care if that intel was gathered by legal or illegal means?

I like to think so, because I think that being the people who care about that is central to our conception of what being American is.  That kind of thing goes directly to who we are and who we've always said we were. 

But I actually think that no, many of us wouldn't care.  That many of us actually do think that the ends justifies the means and that our laws only exist to protect certain people. 

[Ed W]

If we use ill-gotten inteligence to stop a guy from detonating a bomb in the middle of Times Square on NYE, the Super Bowl, the next Presidential innauguration, or anywhere there are thousands who could be hurt are we really going to care if that intel was gathered by legal or illegal means?

If we're going to prosecute him, we care. Otherwise, we're compelled to let him go, bring lesser charges, or simply imprison him without a trial.  Didn't we just see the result of trying to use illegally obtained evidence in another terrorism trial?  They had to drop 280 charges because the evidence was obtained illegally.