Tulsa West Bank Development

[TheArtist]

Still a fan of turning it all into a big park space with a larger amphitheater and then redeveloping the Westport apartments into something denser.  Keep the "development" on the east bank i.e. redevelopment of Riverview area into denser apartments/condos around Riverside & Denver, the residential development of the Blair property by the pedestrian bridge and the redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments at 31st & Riverside.  

The latter two projects could have some interesting synergies with the whitewater park proposed for the pedestrian bridge area and the eventual construction of a Crow Creek jogging/bike trail from the river to Brookside/Zink Park.

I saw someone posted on the TW that the West Bank should be like Tulsa's version of Austin's Zilker Park/Auditorium Shores and I totally agree.

I think the whitewater park and something around the Blair Mansion/Crow Creek area will actually get people to see the potential river development has for Tulsa.  It will help them feel a little more connected to the river and its "seasons". That in turn will imo make the West Bank appear much more attractive.  Running along the trail or driving past is one thing, but to have an area where a lot of people can comfortably go down beside the water will make a difference.  The part of the river that runs through downtown/mid-town Tulsa is beautiful no matter what side you are on.  Where as in Jenks for instance, looking across from the Riverwalk is ho-hum boring, and the Riverwalk itself is set back from the river and when you do go closer to the edge where you can see the "shore" so to speak, its as boring as the dickens too, just grass and a mud drop off to the water. There are ditches by my house that have more character and interest. 

[custosnox]

I want to emphasize what someone else said. Those apartments are not a big problem as far as behavior. Yes, the people are poor but the buildings are well kept and have been recently renovated. There isn't a burgeoning crime wave over there.

But, yes, the perception may be holding development back. Just like the exhorbitant cost of the cement plant, the former Litho building, the railroad and the city public works buildings. Nothing that can't be resolved however. Especially if you have a good idea and some financial support behind you. Then those other problems start to resolve themselves.

I would disagree.  While not the worst area in Tulsa, it is bad enough. My ex lived there with my kids for a while, and there was quiet a bit of crime there, including two of her cars getting stolen, which is really sad given the condition of the cars she drives.  It isn't bad enough that I watch over my shoulder when in the area, it's bad enough to drag development down. 

[Conan71]

I would disagree.  While not the worst area in Tulsa, it is bad enough. My ex lived there with my kids for a while, and there was quiet a bit of crime there, including two of her cars getting stolen, which is really sad given the condition of the cars she drives.  It isn't bad enough that I watch over my shoulder when in the area, it's bad enough to drag development down. 

Exactly.  You just don't hear much gunfire from over there.

[custosnox]

Exactly.  You just don't hear much gunfire from over there.

key word is much, but about half as much as you hear in the 31st and Garnett area

[AquaMan]

I made that remark based on the reduced number of police/fire/ambulance calls I see over there. Also there used to be a lot of street toughs hanging around and whether or not its the heat, I see fewer nasties than I used to. Used to be when you stopped at the light they would come up to your car. When I put my boat in over there crack heads would send their children to beg money. I just don't see that anymore. Seriously, Brightwaters closer to Southwest Blvd. is where the action is. Gun shots, domestic disturbances etc. Conan, is there a lot of theft or vandalism when the bike club parks over there each week?

Theft is citywide and becoming a culture of its own. We don't seem to want to put pressure on their outlets for movement of product (pawn shops, salvages, craigslist) so it is considered an alternate income. Saddest story I saw last week was about an 80 year old woman in Texas who died in her small home because some thieves stole her air conditioner.

Anyway, there is no doubt that area would be tastier for development without the project. One big impediment to development of the area that people seldom note is the railroad. Seriously, I remember an event over there that was totally shut down for hours because the railroad moved some of their boxcars over there and left them for hours waiting for who knows what. Traffic backed up and became angry. The railroad guys couldn't have cared less.

[Conan71]

I made that remark based on the reduced number of police/fire/ambulance calls I see over there. Also there used to be a lot of street toughs hanging around and whether or not its the heat, I see fewer nasties than I used to. Used to be when you stopped at the light they would come up to your car. When I put my boat in over there crack heads would send their children to beg money. I just don't see that anymore. Seriously, Brightwaters closer to Southwest Blvd. is where the action is. Gun shots, domestic disturbances etc. Conan, is there a lot of theft or vandalism when the bike club parks over there each week?

Theft is citywide and becoming a culture of its own. We don't seem to want to put pressure on their outlets for movement of product (pawn shops, salvages, craigslist) so it is considered an alternate income. Saddest story I saw last week was about an 80 year old woman in Texas who died in her small home because some thieves stole her air conditioner.

Anyway, there is no doubt that area would be tastier for development without the project. One big impediment to development of the area that people seldom note is the railroad. Seriously, I remember an event over there that was totally shut down for hours because the railroad moved some of their boxcars over there and left them for hours waiting for who knows what. Traffic backed up and became angry. The railroad guys couldn't have cared less.

It's very rare.  I know of one vehicle break in at the skate park south of 21st St. and another right outside the TRC boathouse in the last year.  In one case, one of my cycling buddies had left his jeans sitting on the passenger seat.  Someone probably thought there was a wallet in the pants.  I have no idea whose car it was that got broken into by the boathouse, but I figured the thieves had been and gone, so probably pretty safe to park there, especially after calling the cops and alerting them to it.

To date, I've not heard of people getting broken into on either side of the block for Weds. Night Ride.  People start rolling out from about 4:30 to 6:30 and go varying distances, so there's almost always someone on both sides of the street on Weds.  Worst I've seen is a drunk or two wandering through the parking lot looking for chump change.  There was a car wreck that happened last fall that happened well after dark while some people were still sitting around chatting.  The driver of the car fled the scene almost as soon as it came to a rest.  No idea if he was a resident of the nearby apartments or not.

In other words, really not much worse than any other part of the city.  I frequently ride south from the Sperry area back to downtown on Cincinnati.  I never get messed with riding through there.  They actually tend to exhibit more courtesy towards cyclists than I get out west or toward Skiatook.  I guess they figure if a white boy wearing spandex is crazy enough to ride through that rough hood on a bicycle, he's best left alone.  

[AquaMan]

Its respect for the uniform, man.

[DTowner]

If I'm a developer looking to invest millions, the mere existence of the public housing near by, not necessarily the crime statistics, is going to be a serious concern.

I hope the City takes the current lack of serious interest in the west bank as an indicator that it needs to focus on the one area right now where things are happening - downtown - and put all of its energy into attracting employers and employees downtown to keep the momentum going in the right direction.

[Conan71]

If I'm a developer looking to invest millions, the mere existence of the public housing near by, not necessarily the crime statistics, is going to be a serious concern.

I hope the City takes the current lack of serious interest in the west bank as an indicator that it needs to focus on the one area right now where things are happening - downtown - and put all of its energy into attracting employers and employees downtown to keep the momentum going in the right direction.

Winner winner!  Chicken dinner!

[SXSW]

If I'm a developer looking to invest millions, the mere existence of the public housing near by, not necessarily the crime statistics, is going to be a serious concern.

I hope the City takes the current lack of serious interest in the west bank as an indicator that it needs to focus on the one area right now where things are happening - downtown - and put all of its energy into attracting employers and employees downtown to keep the momentum going in the right direction.

Agree.  Though a park proposal would be nice, even if it's 5-10 years away from realistically happening.  At least the public would know something is happening over there and the concrete plant would be cleaned up.  

If you're going to look at developing the riverfront, get the whitewater park built at pedestrian bridge.  And continue to redevelop the Riverview area along Riverside around Blue Rose.  Development doesn't have to be on the river bank itself.  Leave that as it is.

And yes continue to focus on downtown.

[Conan71]

Development doesn't have to be on the river bank itself.  Leave that as it is.

And yes continue to focus on downtown.

Agreed and agreed.  We've got a beautiful commodity in the green space and trails around Riverparks, I'd had for that to be crapped up with a bunch of commercial properties when it's not really necessary.  Recreation is a fantastic use of the area next to the river banks.

Well, and in between them too.

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

I heard one of the proposals is to put the Olympics 2020 stadium on the west riverbanks.  I thought the Olympic bid was over but I guess not.  It would be very cool if it did happen.  They could reuse the stadium for an NFL team

[Conan71]

I heard one of the proposals is to put the Olympics 2020 stadium on the west riverbanks.  I thought the Olympic bid was over but I guess not.  It would be very cool if it did happen.  They could reuse the stadium for an NFL team

Or unicorn races

[Hoss]

Or unicorn races

You know what C?  Arrowhead Pale Ale ain't cheap.  Now I have half of one residing on my office wall from laughing...thanks a lot!

[Conan71]

Quit teasing!  I've had to look at that case of beer since the day after it came out.

Last thing I did before I left for Colorado was stick two sixers in the fridge for my return. 

But...I will get to enjoy some Pagosa Brewing Pow Pow IPA Sunday night.  Great way to fall off the beer wagon!