Forget politics

[Gaspar]

I was thinking along similar lines.  While money may be symbol for happiness, it doesn't bring happiness as a direct result of having possession of it.  And I was trying to think of an example showing happiness in the absence of any type of monetary exchange.  Money is a tool and happiness results from what we can accomplish with that tool. 

Here's another way to look at it.  Are you happier with a five dollar bill or a ten dollar bill?  My view is that what you can do with the bill makes you happy, not the bill itself.  And there's a point where the number of bills you have is irrelevant to finding happiness.

 

You've got it!

Take it a step further though.  Money is simply a scrap of paper that says "You've made me this happy-XX." 

If you hold a $10 bill you've made someone twice as happy as if you hold a $5 bill. You can't cash in that reward until you spend it, and what makes you happy may be quantified independently to what makes me or Conan happy.

The money is a tool, but it's acquisition requires you to make someone happy.

[Hoss]

He's too smart to be Republican and too in touch with reality to be Democrat.

Must be a Libertarian.

Note I qualified with 'registered'?

I know Conan's alignments.  Closer to mine than you think.

[Conan71]

I was thinking along similar lines.  While money may be symbol for happiness, it doesn't bring happiness as a direct result of having possession of it.  And I was trying to think of an example showing happiness in the absence of any type of monetary exchange.  Money is a tool and happiness results from what we can accomplish with that tool. 

Here's another way to look at it.  Are you happier with a five dollar bill or a ten dollar bill?  My view is that what you can do with the bill makes you happy, not the bill itself.  And there's a point where the number of bills you have is irrelevant to finding happiness.

 

Undoubtedly, I'd probably be a lot less happy if I didn't have a roof over my head or no truck to drive in the cold weather (nor the means to buy one).  I think we all make a decision at some point about how much is "enough" for us to be happy. Some find that's less than others.  Some people place a higher value on material items than others. 

I could still be traveling all over the place making great bank for that chemical company and be entirely estranged from my daughters and have no other real relationships in my life.  Instead, I'm in a work situation, that while I've had some great years here, I still make less than 1/2 of what I could be making doing something I'm not near as passionate about and something which necessarily would have taken me further from the things that truly make me happy.  It allows me to have everything I need, most of what I want, pay cash for college tuition, and agressively save for retirement.  I'm also really fortunate that FMC is exactly the same way when it comes to material items. 

[Conan71]

The money is a tool, but it's acquisition requires you to make someone happy.

Certainly true with hookers and amusement parks, not so sure people are very happy when they leave money in casinos though.

[Conan71]

And you're a registered Republican?  Wow!  You might get excommunicated from the party.

They need a few of us tokens who aren't closet cases.

[we vs us]

Incorrect. You cite the means, but not the end.  The barrel of oil becomes something of value to those who wish to produce gasoline, cosmetics, plastic toys, seat belts, and whoopee cushions, all of which have a "value" measured in happiness. The money exchanged for these items goes to the original purchase of your barrel of oil.

There's no happiness inherent in that barrel of oil, and there's no happiness inherent in the uses it's put to.  I could as easily be using the gas produced to drive to my sweetheart's house or off a cliff.  The cosmetics can be used to make my prom date feel more beautiful or to cover up the evidence of chronic domestic abuse.  Take your pick.  Not that I want to but I can think of as many possible UNhappinesses that every purchase, or resource path, or service rendered can cause as much as you can come up with their happinesses.

The value to money isn't as in "human moral values."  It represents economic value.  

Your philosophy is interesting and shares a lot with some of the original Marxists, in that money -- or economic value -- is not only part of all human interactions, it is the entirety of human interaction.  Our relationships are all transactional, and can be reduced down to dollar terms in every instance.

[Gaspar]

The value to money isn't as in "human moral values."  It represents economic value.  

I think you actually understand, but the argument from your angle is hard to make.

You are trying to establish that happiness = money.  That's not the argument. 

Economic value is quantified with money.

Money can be exchanged by people.  The motive behind the exchange is based on the pursuit of happiness.

Again, in your example above:

I could as easily be using the gas produced to drive to my sweetheart's house or off a cliff.  The cosmetics can be used to make my prom date feel more beautiful or to cover up the evidence of chronic domestic abuse

Your first example, your desire is to drive your sweetheart's house off a cliff. To fulfill your desire you exchange money for gas.  You have made an exchange of money because the act is directly related to your desire (happiness).

Your second example you cite the purchase of cosmetics because your prom date desires to cover up evidence of chronic domestic abuse.  Hiding the evidence of your violence would make her happier than showing up with a black eye.  She has exchanged money because she desires to look pretty (so you won't hit her again?).

In both examples you have proven that exchanging money requires the generation of happiness.   You have also proven that I do not want to be your sweetheart.

[dbacks fan]

Happiness is a warm gun.

[TulsaMoon]

Happiness is a warm gun.

And a barrel full of Monkeys.. not oil

[guido911]

I was thinking along similar lines.  While money may be symbol for happiness, it doesn't bring happiness as a direct result of having possession of it.  And I was trying to think of an example showing happiness in the absence of any type of monetary exchange.  Money is a tool and happiness results from what we can accomplish with that tool. 

Here's another way to look at it.  Are you happier with a five dollar bill or a ten dollar bill?  My view is that what you can do with the bill makes you happy, not the bill itself.  And there's a point where the number of bills you have is irrelevant to finding happiness.

 

In my opinion, having money increases freedom and opportunity--and happiness. If I want to help a family member having a hard time, or help those really in need, I can without giving it a second thought. And believe me, nothing made me more happy than seeing first hand my charitable dollars at work in the heart of Jamaica.

Oh, and not having to worry about losing a job or working for some d!ck is a bonus.

[custosnox]

Money may not buy happiness, but it can buy you lots of things that can make you feel pretty gitty inside.

I understand that living your live souly through material things is not a path to true happiness.  On the other end of that though is when you struggle to have even the simplist of material things, it makes it pretty hard to be happy.  Having money doesn't mean that your going to be happy or unhappy, it just means you have a more options at your disposal.