The Arizona Massacre

[guido911]

I got a little free time. Okay, make your case that Sarah Palin is remotely responsible for happened in Arizona. I want specific facts and causal connections/linkage. If you speculate, I will call you out on it. Bring it on.

[Townsend]

I got a little free time. Okay, make your case that Sarah Palin is remotely responsible for happened in Arizona. I want specific facts and causal connections/linkage. If you speculate, I will call you out on it. Bring it on.

What for?  Each time she speaks she removes a shovel full.

Perceived reality is what it is.  A large part of the public has decided to buy into the "target painted on the congresswoman" story.

It'll take a while until it blows over.

It will blow over.  She just needs to stay low for a while.

[Hoss]

She just needs to stay low for a while.

Too bad she didn't listen to you.  I agree, she should have stayed quiet.  I guess it's like challenging a child to stay quiet for a set amount of time.  They never win.

[guido911]

What for?  Each time she speaks she removes a shovel full.

Perceived reality is what it is.  A large part of the public has decided to buy into the "target painted on the congresswoman" story.

It'll take a while until it blows over.

It will blow over.  She just needs to stay low for a while.

So your answer is "No, I have no evidence". Next.

[Townsend]

Too bad she didn't listen to you. 

She never does.  I told her "don't let Bristol use the condom with the staple in it." and then "no, she can't dance worth a crap."

Listen?  Not a damned bit.

[Townsend]

So your answer is "No, I have no evidence". Next.

So your answer is "help help!! I need to try to explain to anyone who'll listen that Palin is not a throw away that never should've gotten into the public eye in the first place."

She shouldn't've painted "bulls eyes" on people.  It's not a good way to endear yourself to the reasonably minded.

[Hoss]

So your answer is "No, I have no evidence". Next.

I think the answer really is 'you had your chance to debate that for 12 pages.  Instead you chose childish phraseology and attacks.  Next'.

Let's hope for your clients you argue better than that in a courtroom setting.

[dbacks fan]

She never does.  I told her "don't let Bristol use the condom with the staple in it." and then "no, she can't dance worth a crap."

Listen?  Not a damned bit.

Did you advise her on Bristol trying to start a career in radio in Phoenix?

http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2011/01/06/20110106bristol-palin-offered-job-by-phoenix-radio-station-sev.html

[Townsend]

Did you advise her on Bristol trying to start a career in radio in Phoenix?

I gave up.  There's just no reasoning with her.  I know...shocking.

She still plan on a "Point-counterpoint" with the homeless radio dude?

[guido911]

So your answer is "help help!! I need to try to explain to anyone who'll listen that Palin is not a throw away that never should've gotten into the public eye in the first place."

She shouldn't've painted "bulls eyes" on people.  It's not a good way to endear yourself to the reasonably minded.

So your evidence is she put a bulls eye on someone. First, please provide the link of Palin putting a bulls eye on Giffords' image.  honestly have not seen that one.

Now,

1. Do you have any evidence that Lounger saw this map?


Maybe he was influenced by this map?

Or this map:


I guess the latter two maps from the dems and leftist kos are "reasonably minded". Very weak tea.

2. Do you have any evidence that Loughner knew Palin had even made that map?

[buckeye]

So forgive me folks, but I won't read through 12 pages of silliness to see if my viewpoint is shared.  I'll just spout it instead.

Most of the vigorous obstreperations have nothing to do with the crux of the event.  It's not a gun, right-wing, or "dangerous" language thing, it's a mental health thing.  Clearly the guy is crazy and I'm at a loss as to how anybody can credit a supposedly freshly-deployed, pervasive culture of specifically violent political language with being responsible for his actions.  Since we've decided he pulled the trigger but doesn't bear responsibility for his own actions, let's see if we missed any other influences.  Perhaps the goofy skull shrine in the backyard?  Rejection by academia?  Widespread animal cruelty drove this man to make a statement?  Constant social rejection?  Did we miss anything?

Frankly, it's foolish to assign a rationale to a crazy person's actions.

On the other hand, if this solely right-wing sourced pervasive nasty culture is indeed responsible, perhaps it's just recently revved up to the point that its influence is irresistibly felt by the nutcases around us.  Well, in my fairly short lifetime, I can not remember a time when political ads and "debate" weren't rife with both covert and overt references to violence.  It's simply disingenuous to assert otherwise and I'm at a loss as to how intelligent people can buy into such pablum.

What again does Palin have to do with any of this?  Other than her status as default favorite whipping girl for the media? 

Does anybody know for sure that this man singled out a congresswoman for the "D" after her name?  Has anybody else read this:

"One user on Twitter, Caitie Parker, wrote she went to high school, college, and was in a band with the gunman. She said she hadn’t seen him since 2007.

Parker wrote of Lougher, “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.” She also described him as “more left.”

On his now deleted MySpace page, Lougher left a series of rants, including:

* If there’s no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown. There’s no flag in the constitution. Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown. Burn every new and old flag that you see. Burn your flag!”

* “I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed. Watch this protest in reverse! Ask the local police; ‘What’s your illegal activity on duty?’”

* “If you protest the government then there’s a new government from protesting. There’s not a new government from protesting. Thus, you aren’t protesting the government.”"

?

Most of the discussion nationwide is simply a bunch of hooey, politicians engaging in the most ghoulish pandering.  Give me a break.

The real questions that we should be asking have to do with how our society ignored the clear and unpleasant signs from this guy and failed to get him either helped or sequestered.

[Townsend]

So forgive me folks, but I won't read through 12 pages of silliness to see if my viewpoint is shared.  I'll just spout it instead.?

Most of the discussion nationwide is simply a bunch of hooey, politicians engaging in the most ghoulish pandering.  Give me a break.

Sorry, we screamed by your discussion a while ago.  This has become a thread about whether we'd rather Palin would go away or how much of our tongue we'd use to lick her boots.

I agree with you though.  Most of the discussion does seem to be hooey.

[nathanm]

Here is blog post listing the use of this expression from both sides of the political spectrum.

Regardless of who has or has not used a given term, you are aware that someone else doing something doesn't make it OK or right for you to do it?

buckeye, in answer to the last bit of your post, we made it nearly impossible to involuntarily commit people to mental health facilities in the 70s and early 80s. Reagan put the final nail in the coffin, but the policy of deinstitutionalization dates back much farther. That said, this guy's rantings sound no nuttier than what I hear from some of my more nutty winger family members.

It's no nuttier than the ever-popular birther bullshit, which is espoused by people on TV, either.

His main hangups appeared to be ones usually associated with the fringe of the tea party, Ron Paul, and Glenn Beck, namely goldbugism, the illegitimate flag, and all that other pseudo-libertarian hooey. I don't say that meaning that he was an adherent of the tea party or listened to Ron Paul or Glenn Beck, I'm only saying that you typically hear that stuff from people who identify with the libertarian right.

[guido911]

Palin should never been part of this discussion to begin with. This thread should have about an attempted assassination and six dead innocents. Folks like Townsend just have to find away, though, to malign a person who had done the same EXACT damned thing as those in his corner.

Still waiting for that evidence connecting Palin to Loughner.

[guido911]

Regardless of who has or has not used a given term, you are aware that someone else doing something doesn't make it OK or right for you to do it?

buckeye, in answer to the last bit of your post, we made it nearly impossible to involuntarily commit people to mental health facilities in the 70s and early 80s. Reagan put the final nail in the coffin, but the policy of deinstitutionalization dates back much farther. That said, this guy's rantings sound no nuttier than what I hear from some of my more nutty winger family members.

It's no nuttier than the ever-popular birther bullshit, which is espoused by people on TV, either.