The Arizona Massacre

[pmcalk]

It's odd--I have seen so much finger pointing at Palin, but very little at whom I see as having the most culpability (aside, of course from the actual shooter).  If you watch the deranged youtube videos, you'll see that the shooter was obsessed with the issue of currency.  Much like Glenn Beck.  I agree with all of the comments that assert the need to change the tone in Washington.  But I feel that they are missing the point.  The anger is bad, but isn't likely to lead to what happened in Tuscon.  Putting politicians in crosshairs is stupid, mean-spirited, and shouldn't happen.  But that isn't what sets off crazy people.  It's the paranoid, apocalyptic ranting of crazy people like Glenn Beck.  Asserting that the economy is on the verge of complete collapse, and that a modern day WWII is just around the corner, is going to set off people with mental illness.  That's pretty foreseeable.  You can disagree with people, you can argue that their position is wrong.  But don't go on air, blubbber & cry, insist that America is being destroyed & that there is a conspiracy to create a "New World Order"--then act surprised that some lunatic thought shooting people was the solution.

As much as I disliked George Bush's policies, I never thought that his presidency would bring about the end of civilization as we know it.  Neither will Obama's.

Before right-wingers jump all over me, I am very well aware that there are paranoid, left wing conspiracy mongers, who rant and rave about the end of civilization.  I just don't hear them on the radio.

[Townsend]

Before right-wingers jump all over me, I am very well aware that there are paranoid, left wing conspiracy mongers, who rant and rave about the end of civilization.  I just don't hear them on the radio.

That's because there isn't enough of an audience to make it financially feasible.

[Conan71]

guido, I did not get that from Daily KO's, I got it throuh a friends facebook posting that was a link to the Christian Right Face Book page.

Nice of you to ask where I got it, instead of jumping all over me.

Besides I'm not blaming Palin, theres enough of it to go around for everyone.

Really there's not any blame to "go around".

The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Jared Loughner and evidence is mounting he was simply a psycho with anti-government views,  apparently was a truther, and according to this article had a personal beef with the Congresswoman dating back several years based on an earlier face-to-face encounter.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/associated-press-giffords-shooter-believed-us-government-was-behind-911

[waterboy]

Why [This Tradgedy] Means That We Must Support My Politics
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/09/why-the-shootings-me-1.html

Very good. I was sure for a moment that it was a previous post on this forum.

EVERYTHING is political as has been pointed out on this forum numerous times. Which came first, the craziness of the person or the craziness of his politics is hard to determine. He reminds me of the Murrah bomber mostly. But for heavens sakes stay true to the ranting going on here for years....it is political.

[dbacks fan]

Really there's not any blame to "go around".

The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Jared Loughner and evidence is mounting he was simply a psycho with anti-government views,  apparently was a truther, and according to this article had a personal beef with the Congresswoman dating back several years based on an earlier face-to-face encounter.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/01/10/associated-press-giffords-shooter-believed-us-government-was-behind-911

As I said before and will say again, I was drawing a conclusion to observations that I made in reference to his youtube rants which drew a line for me to some of Glenn Becks comments about the gov't becoming socialist, and the comments about gold is what you need to own.
When I said there's enough blame to go around I was refering to people from talk radio, tv, and net pod casts and bloggers that push tese issues is what may have pushed hime over the edge. I was making a comment on the information that I had found and read from reliable sources to form my own opinion.

[nathanm]

The blame for the incident lies squarely on him and his state of mind.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Loughner or possibly his mental illness don't bear the responsibility for his actions. I'm also saying that saying the crazy smile that some of the wingers say is tantamount to pouring gasoline on a house. Sure, they aren't striking a match and lighting it on fire, but they're going right up to that point with their constant accusations of treason and claims that the government is "taking over" (whatever that means in the context of the government we've had since the civil war).

Sane folks don't think that means it's time to take up arms and start killing Congresspeople, but it does a great job of planting ideas in the heads of nutters. This is true whether the rhetoric is coming from a lefty mad at Obama for not being lefty enough, whether it's some anarcho-libertarian who thinks that the only good government is a nonexistent government, or whether it's some confused individual like Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin who lacks an internally consistent philosophy.

[Townsend]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sarah-palin-mails-glenn-beck-2010-ad-put/story?id=12582457&page=1

Sarah Palin on 'Crosshairs' Controversy: 'I Hate Violence'
Sarah Palin E-Mails Glenn Beck on Ad That Put 'Crosshairs' on Gabrielle Giffords' District

[Breadburner]

Is it Bushs' fault yet.....

[Townsend]

Glenn Beck even went as far to suggest that Palin herself could now become a target of violence.

"Please look into protection for your family," Beck told her in an e-mail. "An attempt on you could bring the republic down."

Queue sound of hairball being cleared.

[Conan71]

As I said before and will say again, I was drawing a conclusion to observations that I made in reference to his youtube rants which drew a line for me to some of Glenn Becks comments about the gov't becoming socialist, and the comments about gold is what you need to own.
When I said there's enough blame to go around I was refering to people from talk radio, tv, and net pod casts and bloggers that push tese issues is what may have pushed hime over the edge. I was making a comment on the information that I had found and read from reliable sources to form my own opinion.

Not directed at you so much as the many inaccuracies which are coming out on this story.  I'm not a big listener of political commentary shows anymore, so I have no reason to defend them other than the First Amendment.

Here's the thing, people are assuming he even listened to talk radio or watched the political channels on TV.  At least one of his friends is saying Loughner listened to music and he was not aware of him tuning into talk programs.  One of his college professors made him sound very, very sarcastic, cynical, and downright scary.

There was a huge rush to judgement on this within minutes on Saturday.  Everyone seems so intent on removing absolute responsibility from criminals.  "He was pushed by society to do it" "He was pushed by talk radio".  Bullshit, he picked up the Goddamn gun and carried this out because he's nuts.  You cannot force someone to do what is not within them to do in the first place in situations like this.  It makes as much sense as blaming a close friend a person had a spat with for that person commiting suicide.

[swake]

Not directed at you so much as the many inaccuracies which are coming out on this story.  I'm not a big listener of political commentary shows anymore, so I have no reason to defend them other than the First Amendment.

Here's the thing, people are assuming he even listened to talk radio or watched the political channels on TV.  At least one of his friends is saying Loughner listened to music and he was not aware of him tuning into talk programs.  One of his college professors made him sound very, very sarcastic, cynical, and downright scary.

There was a huge rush to judgement on this within minutes on Saturday.  Everyone seems so intent on removing absolute responsibility from criminals.  "He was pushed by society to do it" "He was pushed by talk radio".  Bullshit, he picked up the Goddamn gun and carried this out because he's nuts.  You cannot force someone to do what is not within them to do in the first place in situations like this.  It makes as much sense as blaming a close friend a person had a spat with for that person commiting suicide.

I would be very interested to hear about his family life. he sounds like a very disturbed young man. Why was he so troubled and why was he not getting help? He lived with his parents. Why is there nothing from them?

[Conan71]

Swake most troubling of all is friends, family, and teachers are all saying they thought he was capable of something like this (directly speaking and some are insinuating).  One would have to assume at some point the parents had tried to get him help or that the professor who was so wigged out about the guy would have told the administrators at the community college he attended.

Sadly I think this is a case of a ticking time bomb.  Until he committed a criminal act, there was simply nothing anyone could do to contain him legally or force him to get help.  

[guido911]

I would be very interested to hear about his family life. he sounds like a very disturbed young man. Why was he so troubled and why was he not getting help? He lived with his parents. Why is there nothing from them?

Sounds like you get it.

[guido911]

Rep Franks addresses the CjC's position:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4490896/we-cant-be-intimated-by-this/

[swake]

The family sounds off, the father does not seem to have an employment history and has clashed with neighbors. Sounds like the kid may well have had a much less than ideal upbringing, and even worse the obvious choice of schizophrenia does seem to have a strong genetic component and does run in families.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/neighbors-jared-loughner-and-f.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0110/Jared-Lee-Loughner-what-is-known-about-Tucson-Arizona-shooting-suspect

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40996934/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/