The Arizona Massacre

[Ed W]

Statistically speaking, most assassins are not in fact insane. Calling this guy insane without evidence to back it up is just silly. Having kooky ideas about the way the world works is not evidence of insanity, it's evidence of being a kook. Loughner very likely had a logical thought process behind his actions, though his "facts" and assumptions were all wrong.

I'm wondering if many of these mass killers think they're trapped by circumstances/businesses/politics/or little green men, and there's no way out short of killing.  It's much like the suicide-by-cop scenario, where someone fires at the police in the hope that they'll shoot back and kill him.  And there's undoubtedly an element of rage when someone decides to not only kill himself, but take as many others out as well.  And I keep using the pronoun 'him' because it's rare for a woman to do something like this, but I do not know why.

BTW, I tried to change the subject header without success.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I got a little free time. Okay, make your case that Sarah Palin is remotely responsible for happened in Arizona. I want specific facts and causal connections/linkage. If you speculate, I will call you out on it. Bring it on.

Nobody said she was responsible on here I don't think.  Doesn't mean you can't hold people accountable for what they do.

[waterboy]

I'm wondering if many of these mass killers think they're trapped by circumstances/businesses/politics/or little green men, and there's no way out short of killing.  It's much like the suicide-by-cop scenario, where someone fires at the police in the hope that they'll shoot back and kill him.  And there's undoubtedly an element of rage when someone decides to not only kill himself, but take as many others out as well.  And I keep using the pronoun 'him' because it's rare for a woman to do something like this, but I do not know why.

BTW, I tried to change the subject header without success.

Crazy is as crazy does, I guess. Some people are simply out of phase with the world around them. No doubt people thought Einstein, Nostradamas, Galileo and Tesla were crazy at the time. Not that this guy rates with them.

Nothing has been said about what medications (legal) he may have been using either. By the silly look on his face, I would bet he was receiving some sort of medication. Anyone who has had experience with someone plagued with deep depression, combined with narcissism, anti-depressants, street drugs and a feeling of rejection by his peers, knows it is a dangerous combination. That is an induced crazy. Their actions are not necessarily related to rage, often it is simply a lack of emotion whatsoever. They are deadened to the world. In that mental state one doesn't even perceive another being as real. They are cardboard figures of no importance or gravity. That is why they can easily kill women, children and animals without hesitation. Its like a video game to them.

Given the chance he would have killed any politician of any stripe. This one was accessible and the people around her might as well have been furniture.

[guido911]

I listened to the Memorial Service tonight. All speakers did well.

[RecycleMichael]

I listened to the Memorial Service tonight. All speakers did well.

It was good. I think it helped close some wounds and helped Americans reflect on the tragedy.

[nathanm]

And I keep using the pronoun 'him' because it's rare for a woman to do something like this, but I do not know why.

Interestingly, women are not terribly rare in the population of attempted assassins. 40% or so since 1949, IIRC, so less common than male attackers/approachers, but not rare. They're more likely to work in a group, though. What is rare is nonwhites. Only 25% of the attacks/approaches with a weapon between 1949 and 1999 had a nonwhite perpetrator.

The rest of your post is pretty much spot on, though. They often feel forced into the circumstance, sometimes for reasons that actually exist and sometimes for reasons that are 100% delusion. Only about a third are attempting suicide-by-cop, though. They're more often seeking fame (although that's less common in assassinations of political figures), attention for a cause, or resolution of a specific grievance against the target.

waterboy, most criminals have some sort of substance abuse problem, but assassins seem to have similar substance abuse issues as the general population. Most assassins/attempted assassins don't have prior criminal records, either. Especially the ones that go after government officials.

This case is unusual in that he followed up his seemingly calm "normal" (for assassins) assassination by shooting members of the crowd. That said, I seem to recall reading that he wasn't terribly agitated once he was subdued, although he did struggle for a short while before calmly accepting that he wasn't getting away.

Basically, this guy is a fairly typical assassin in most ways and the case is fairly typical as far as these things go, at least based on what we presently know.

[guido911]

Nobody said she was responsible on here I don't think.  Doesn't mean you can't hold people accountable for what they do.

Like these people that are trying to keep Palin accountable?

NSFW

http://vimeo.com/18733744

[buckeye]

Crazy is as crazy does, I guess. Some people are simply out of phase with the world around them. No doubt people thought Einstein, Nostradamas, Galileo and Tesla were crazy at the time. Not that this guy rates with them.

Depends on what the meaning of "crazy" is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/13/2011-01-13_this_is_my_genocide_school_creepy_gunmans_insane_rants.html

That's the kind of stuff I'd call crazy.  Markedly irrational.

Given the chance he would have killed any politician of any stripe. This one was accessible and the people around her might as well have been furniture.

This is the very valid thought that's left behind all the histrionics.

[waterboy]

I see and converse with what most people would call "crazy" every day. Some are actually visiting from supervised living environments. Hardly any of them are threatening. Some are angry, some are irritated, usually discheveled and some are quite demanding. I have names for them (mr. peach, NRA guy, toothless guy, the twins, etc.) Almost all of them love to rant about some percieved ill towards them or about society. They seem to seek me out and that's okay, cause I figure some day its the basis of a book or movie!

But to your point, truth is these people would be considered dangerous crazy if they were dropped off 5 miles South in the suburbs. We are just used to them.

A yardstick for lunatics...one point of view. (bonus points for the artist and date)

[Conan71]

I see and converse with what most people would call "crazy" every day. Some are actually visiting from supervised living environments. Hardly any of them are threatening. Some are angry, some are irritated and some are quite demanding. Almost all of them love to rant about some percieved ill towards them or about society.

A yardstick for lunatics...one point of view. (bonus points for the artist and date)

Sounds entertaining.  Are they hiring, I'd like to have it as a second job just for the social inerraction.  I deal more in the construction and engineering realm and they are largely boring 

[Ed W]

If you'd like to meet an interesting cross-section of people as the basis for writing a book, I highly recommend working in any retail environment.  You'll meet grifters, con-men, thieves, demanding and entitled brats, wackos, nymphos, and many, many more.

I've done that, and I worked in a psychiatric hospital for a few years.  We had one genuine sociopath, and I truly hope that none of us ever encounter another one.  In an earlier time, he would have been burned at the stake.  The guy was soulless and devoid of emotion.  He could cut your throat and walk away singing.  He was the only patient that frightened me.

[Red Arrow]

A yardstick for lunatics...one point of view. (bonus points for the artist and date)

Strawberry Alarmclock  1967 (ish)

[waterboy]

Sounds entertaining.  Are they hiring, I'd like to have it as a second job just for the social inerraction.  I deal more in the construction and engineering realm and they are largely boring 

They are always hiring. Go through people real fast. Boring pays better too.

[waterboy]

If you'd like to meet an interesting cross-section of people as the basis for writing a book, I highly recommend working in any retail environment.  You'll meet grifters, con-men, thieves, demanding and entitled brats, wackos, nymphos, and many, many more.

Quite true. Now if I could just find the patience to write for money instead of for therapy.

[waterboy]

Strawberry Alarmclock  1967 (ish)

!!!Yes!!! They had a funny little movie thingie they played on Laugh-In in '67 to go along with the song. Early music video.