Downtown development recap

[DolfanBob]

Artist. In that video it was mentioned that 500 crimes happen around the IDL every year. That sounds a little high to me.

[DTowner]

I spent some time in Nashville last summer and came away impressed with the city – it  has a lot going on other than just kitschy country music tourism.  It was interesting, however, on the drive in from the airport, just outside of downtown heading towards Vanderbilt, we passed by a giant hole in the ground that looked like an abandoned quarry.  I asked my driver about it, he told me it was an excavation for a large condo project that went bust a few years earlier.  Then he detoured and showed me a series of new high rise condos (one of which Taylor Swift has the penthouse on the top two floors) and told me each of these projects had gone through at least one bankruptcy before getting completed.  Nashville's three primary industries – publishing (music and non-music), healthcare and music/entertainment – are all booming.  

Although a lot of the parts are in place, Tulsa is still missing that catalyst industry to take us from slow growth to boom town.

[davideinstein]

I don't think we need to chase industry, I think we need to have a city that attracts industry.

[Townsend]

I don't think we need to chase industry, I think we need to have a city that attracts industry.

Making life in Tulsa fun for the employees would help.

[Teatownclown]

Making life in Tulsa fun for the employees would help.

It's never enough, Townie. Take a look inside....

It's not about just having fun. It's the culture, education level, and livability.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Artist. In that video it was mentioned that 500 crimes happen around the IDL every year. That sounds a little high to me.

Define crime

[TheArtist]

Artist. In that video it was mentioned that 500 crimes happen around the IDL every year. That sounds a little high to me.

I had nothing to do with the video.  Thought it was very poorly made with very little attention to detail.  Did not imho make downtown and Tulsa look very attractive.  And is the second time I believe I have heard the mayor mention that Tulsa's downtown has had something that no other city has had during the recession... construction (or something to that effect).  Which is blatantly false. There were more highrises started and going up during the recession in NYC alone than have ever been built in all of Tulsa's history, Salt Lake City has seen beaucoup construction in it's core, heck OKC has the Devon Tower, etc. It's like they are trying to make Tulsa look good by saying things that are obviously not true and then on top of it taking the great assets we do have and either not playing them up or making them look downright shabby.  Most of the shots of and in downtown are horrible. Pan over the arena, not towards the buildings downtown but towards a sea of parking lots. Mention the addition to a church, and rather than show off it's beautiful, towering, gothic stone architecture, instead show a close up of it's sign.  Show almost empty streets, sidewalks, and parks ( I can almost hear the city employees that I am guessing made this say "heck I am not wasting my lunch time filming this video" lunchtime, when there would be people walking around downtown.  Show a ribbon cutting and band walking over the new bridge (not that you could tell if it was a bridge if you didn't know better) and again, no buildings in the background making downtown and this bridge look as though it might as well be in the middle of the Arizona desert, OOOOOH! impressive!.  And on and on.  I was like "And they are proud of this? and think it put's Tulsa in a good light? and want us to pass it around?".   If some high school students from the 80's had done this, I apologize, it would rank a B- ( or C due to the inaccuracies), but if this was a city attempt by paid adults....

[TulsaRufnex]

More like its Kardashian sized assphalt parking lots......

.....but building a WalMart or a stadium there would have ruined the neighborhood's fragile eco-system.   /sarcasm

[BKDotCom]

.....but building a WalMart or a stadium there would have ruined the neighborhood's fragile eco-system.   /sarcasm

If the option for downtown is surface parking or a Wal-Mart...
I'll take the surface parking

[Townsend]

If the option for downtown is surface parking or a Wal-Mart...
I'll take the surface parking

Same thing.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Although a lot of the parts are in place, Tulsa is still missing that catalyst industry to take us from slow growth to boom town.

That statement is definitely a sign of youth, and no real knowledge about the history of the area.  We have ALWAYS been a boom town from a variety of several different industries.  Think oil, gas, aviation, computers (Telex), call centers, fast food (don't giggle - that's multi-tens of billions per year nationwide), appliances, paper goods, music, movies, agriculture (cattle, wheat, soybeans, marijuana), one of the larger shipping ports in the country.  Over many, many decades!

We have an amazingly diverse economy here - especially for our size relative to other states with 10 times our population!  And while we definitely have issues, they certainly don't "feel" like they are as bad as those other places!  Geez, people - we could be Texas for crying out loud!!  Oooppssss...sorry...Baja Oklahoma!!  Or California!!!

Occasionally, we have been forward looking and done very well planning for the future - Tulsa's water supplies, Port of Catoosa.

What I hear way too often is kind of like the boss who says, "Yeah...you accomplished that list of 8 important things by yesterday morning, but what have you done for me lately....?"  Slower, steady growth has shown to be better for most Oklahoman's than the boom/bust cycle oil has done over and over....

So what would that catalyst be?  That gives us the "next big thing"...??  Keeping in mind that while we have plenty of natural gas to "fuel" that next big thing - at least until it is all shipped overseas - we are water constrained right now.  Probably have been for several years and just didn't understand/realize.  So whatever it is had better work "dry".... ie no more water parks!


Sidebar reference;
Our population was relatively stable from 1930 to 1970 in the 2.5 million range (+/-).  Since then, we have increased to about 3.8 million in the last 40 years....  Has your lifestyle increased proportionately in the last 40 years?  Just having "more" economic activity, as in attracting "more" industry to the state doesn't necessarily mean better....  (Oklahoma's gross domestic product per capita was $35,480 in 2010, which was ranked 40th among the states.  Median personal income 2010, $23,770)

3/4 down the page... population for last 100 years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma

[TheArtist]

A lot of places will "pick an industry, or two or three" and then emphasize those, work to grow them, invest in them, etc.  I am guessing we do that but either do not have good city PR that lets the public know of it's success, or we haven't had much success.  I hear more about the OKC medical district/industry they have been working to grow than say successes in us growing, say, our aviation industry as an example.  

But perhaps your right in that we have chosen a super diversified approach, in which case I would expect to hear more about that and hopefully higher income job growth.

And that's one of the things that interests me and that I run into as an artist, what appears to be a lack of people who can afford to buy art as compared to our competitor cities lol. Yesterday was driving downtown past TCC to my shop and saw a young artist carrying one of those large artist portfolios.  My first thought was, that if I were to talk to this artist they would likely mention something about moving to another city where they could sell their art or work for a company that needed an artist (advertising/promotions, web design, product design, window design, etc. etc. etc.).  Artists can definitely be, via multiple ways, the "canary in the mine" when it comes to where your income levels stand or are going.

I guess what's frustrating right now if I get down to it is... Where is Tulsa going?

Am I missing it? Am I missing the information thats being put out there that lets us know that things are moving along, and how they are doing so?  Or is this administration or city not putting that info out there, because the news isn't all that good?  I also like to hear when things aren't going well for hopefully that acts as a rallying cry to motivate us to try new things.  But not hearing that either.  It's like as a city we are kind of sitting here with mediocre to no aspirations and direction, and anyone with half a brain can look around and tell you where that likely gets you.  

 

[DTowner]

That statement is definitely a sign of youth, and no real knowledge about the history of the area. 

No matter how inapplicable, I always love being called young.

Yes, I'm a well aware of Tulsa's history and that busts always follow the booms.  My problem is we keep having the busts without the upside benefits of the booms.  Tulsa has tried to diversify its economy since the oil bust in the early 1980s, but the reality is this is still an energy dominated economy.  Much of our growth the past few years is energy driven.  Even much of our manufacturing is related to and connected with the exploration, production or shipping of petroleum products.

Worse, our diversification efforts have focused on industries that, while still present in Tulsa, have not lived up to the promise.  Aviation – does anyone really believe AA or Spirit hold great promise for future expansion in Tulsa?  We are fighting a constant battle just to hold on to what we've got and have steadily leaked aviation jobs for the past decade.  Telecommunications once held great promise with WorldCom and Williams Communications' hiring and spending binges.  That did not turn out so well.  Is anyone seriously arguing that call centers are our "boom" industry that will be a catalyst for widespread population and economic growth?

Tulsa is growing, but ever so slowly.  For every Cimarex success story , we seem to have a WCG/Dollar Thrifty/SemGroup set back.  We have dozens of threads going on this site discussing all the things we want to see happen in Tulsa.  Those things won't happen unless we are not only actually growing, but perceived by outsiders as a dynamic and growing place.  My point about a catalyst industry is that we need something to kick start us and really move the needle. 

We have made great strides over the past 10 years to position Tulsa to be more attractive and to grow.  What's missing now is the actual growth.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No matter how inapplicable, I always love being called young.

Yes, I'm a well aware of Tulsa's history and that busts always follow the booms.  My problem is we keep having the busts without the upside benefits of the booms.  Tulsa has tried to diversify its economy since the oil bust in the early 1980s, but the reality is this is still an energy dominated economy.  Much of our growth the past few years is energy driven.  Even much of our manufacturing is related to and connected with the exploration, production or shipping of petroleum products.

Worse, our diversification efforts have focused on industries that, while still present in Tulsa, have not lived up to the promise.  Aviation – does anyone really believe AA or Spirit hold great promise for future expansion in Tulsa?  We are fighting a constant battle just to hold on to what we've got and have steadily leaked aviation jobs for the past decade.  Telecommunications once held great promise with WorldCom and Williams Communications' hiring and spending binges.  That did not turn out so well.  Is anyone seriously arguing that call centers are our "boom" industry that will be a catalyst for widespread population and economic growth?

Tulsa is growing, but ever so slowly.  For every Cimarex success story , we seem to have a WCG/Dollar Thrifty/SemGroup set back.  We have dozens of threads going on this site discussing all the things we want to see happen in Tulsa.  Those things won't happen unless we are not only actually growing, but perceived by outsiders as a dynamic and growing place.  My point about a catalyst industry is that we need something to kick start us and really move the needle. 

We have made great strides over the past 10 years to position Tulsa to be more attractive and to grow.  What's missing now is the actual growth.

You saw the income numbers I mentioned...goes to the basic philosophy I have mentioned many times...over generalized somewhat, but following a trend... to Democrat's low wages are the problem, to Republicans, low wages are the answer.  Especially in the last 20 to 30 years, specific actions have been taken to keep Oklahoma less educated, therefore less "valuable", therefore worth less pay.  Right to Work.  Keeping education funding lower than not just surrounding states, but nationwide.

We are 40th.  Not the bottom,....but close.

AA and Spirit - not now.  Due to causes WAY outside our control.  Incompetent management in the case of AA, due to Republican enabled rewards for that incompetence (tax deductible large bonuses and paychecks for incompetent management).  Not sure what is going on with Spirit...haven't got any good contacts there lately. 

What you are talking about are all topics that I have discussed related to tax treatments - and the way we just go with the stupid stuff - cut income taxes and give companies lots of tax money to come here for a while.  We could have some innovative treatments of merger and buyout events that would provide incentive to go another direction.  No coercion - it's all carrot!

And why don't we enjoy the trip while we are on that path - to figuring out how to "grow"....if you always need the "fix" of the "next big thing" then you are unlikely to ever be happy.  How is "moving the needle" going to make things that much better - that is "get rich quick" scheming...?  We have increased 55% in 40 years.  Is your life better or worse than it was in the 70's overall?  Did more volume in your house make it more enjoyable?  It DID make the realtor, the builder and the tax man all much happier.

A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
   Lao Tzu  (570 – 490 B.C.)


As for positioning not making a difference - well, as we have discussed, if we didn't keep shooting ourselves in the feet - both of them - as a state, maybe more of that would happen.  But do you really want the population to double with a bunch more Yankees and miscellaneous left and right coasters??  Look what is has done to us lately...

[heironymouspasparagus]

A lot of places will "pick an industry, or two or three" and then emphasize those, work to grow them, invest in them, etc.  I am guessing we do that but either do not have good city PR that lets the public know of it's success, or we haven't had much success.  I hear more about the OKC medical district/industry they have been working to grow than say successes in us growing, say, our aviation industry as an example.  

But perhaps your right in that we have chosen a super diversified approach, in which case I would expect to hear more about that and hopefully higher income job growth.

And that's one of the things that interests me and that I run into as an artist, what appears to be a lack of people who can afford to buy art as compared to our competitor cities lol. Yesterday was driving downtown past TCC to my shop and saw a young artist carrying one of those large artist portfolios.  My first thought was, that if I were to talk to this artist they would likely mention something about moving to another city where they could sell their art or work for a company that needed an artist (advertising/promotions, web design, product design, window design, etc. etc. etc.).  Artists can definitely be, via multiple ways, the "canary in the mine" when it comes to where your income levels stand or are going.

I guess what's frustrating right now if I get down to it is... Where is Tulsa going?

Am I missing it? Am I missing the information thats being put out there that lets us know that things are moving along, and how they are doing so?  Or is this administration or city not putting that info out there, because the news isn't all that good?  I also like to hear when things aren't going well for hopefully that acts as a rallying cry to motivate us to try new things.  But not hearing that either.  It's like as a city we are kind of sitting here with mediocre to no aspirations and direction, and anyone with half a brain can look around and tell you where that likely gets you.  

 

I'm not sure we have chosen diversification - certainly not with any conscious intent - but we do have some variety.

As for buying art, well you have a painting in your shop that you have made prints of that SWMBO and I absolutely love!!  And we are gonna come buy one sometime soon.  But it all goes back to the money thing...the median income here just doesn't leave much slack.  Our 47%ers probably number much more than 47%!  I can afford a print.  Would love to have that original, but no way I will ever get that kind of money.  And people like guido are probably doing all they can already.  Rock and a hard spot....