Walker v. Public Employees

[guido911]

While guido was working up his moral outrage courtesy of an O'Keefe wannabe, the union agreed to concede to all of Walker's demands, save one: The elimination of collective bargaining rights for public employees. Walker told them to go love themselves.

Edited to add: And it's nice to see some of our own Oklahoma Tea Partiers are running their own Twitter disinformation campaign, trying to claim that "liberal protesters" were arrested by police today, which the Madison PD says is false. In other words, don't believe everything you see/read on this today.

Oh I'm sorry. I guess that doctor didn't say that she was part of this lying and fraud on behalf of these union punks. Jeez, the lengths you go to defend the indefensible. Well, so much for the lone O'Keefe wannabe:

[nathanm]

Funny that you're more hung up on doctors writing notes than a state attempting to remove collective bargaining rights for all but a few public employees. Pure genius on the part of the union to give the Governor what he wants in exchange for dropping the wholesale attack on collective bargaining, and rank stupidity on the Governor's part in not accepting the offer.

Apparently calling in sick when you're not really sick is worse than abusing the public trust by lying about the state of the budget and refusing to accept a solution to your made up problem because it doesn't meet an ideological purity test. Only in bizzaro-world. 

[guido911]

Funny that you're more hung up on doctors writing notes than a state attempting to remove collective bargaining rights for all but a few public employees. Pure genius on the part of the union to give the Governor what he wants in exchange for dropping the wholesale attack on collective bargaining, and rank stupidity on the Governor's part in not accepting the offer.

Apparently calling in sick when you're not really sick is worse than abusing the public trust by lying about the state of the budget and refusing to accept a solution to your made up problem because it doesn't meet an ideological purity test. Only in bizzaro-world. 

[nathanm]

[guido911]

Caption Time:

[nathanm]

I'm sorry, I don't know your meme.

[we vs us]

Caption Time:

I totally agree!  Righteous anger is SO unsightly!

[guido911]

I totally agree!  SELF-Righteousness anger is SO unsightly!

There. Fixed that.

[nathanm]

There. Fixed that.

Yeah, it's self-righteous to want to keep the right to collectively bargain. It's OK for management, but if labor does it, it's automatically wrong.

[guido911]

Yeah, it's self-righteous to want to keep the right to collectively bargain. It's OK for management, but if labor does it, it's automatically wrong.

There is a BIG difference between "management" at a private company and "management" in the public sector. The latter of course being that "management" are those cheap and miserly taxpayers. Incidentally, the unions are not losing the right to collectively bargain on everything--only as to benefits.

I was raised in a very pro-union environment and have, er had, great respect for unions. It sickens me to see how these public servants, many that spend appreciable time with our children, are willing to carry vile and despicable signs, lie, and cheat and masquerade it as "free speech". Those scum are being exposed for what they are.

Here's hoping Oklahoma is next.

EDITED: I am walking back my last comment. I don't think Oklahomans would practice the degree of dooshbaggery exhibited in Wisconsin.

[nathanm]

There is a BIG difference between "management" at a private company and "management" in the public sector. The latter of course being that "management" are those cheap and miserly taxpayers. Incidentally, the unions are not losing the right to collectively bargain on everything--only as to benefits.

What I'm hearing you say is that because this group of people works for "you", they should not only be underpaid about 5% (in Wisconsin) relative to the public sector but they shouldn't have the right to negotiate as a group. One of the more annoying parts about freedom is that people get it even when it's inconvenient to the rest of us.

Incidentally, the same argument you use to attack public employees' unions could be used to attack unions in the private sector. After all, those unions could be driving up the price of your air conditioner or whatever.

[guido911]

What I'm hearing you say is that because this group of people works for "you", they should not only be underpaid about 5% (in Wisconsin) relative to the public sector but they shouldn't have the right to negotiate as a group. One of the more annoying parts about freedom is that people get it even when it's inconvenient to the rest of us.

Incidentally, the same argument you use to attack public employees' unions could be used to attack unions in the private sector. After all, those unions could be driving up the price of your air conditioner or whatever.

That's not even remotely close to my point. And please, link me to a source that when all benefits and wages are factored in that Wisconsin public sector employees are being underpaid.

As for comparing private to public, sorry. That a non-starter. I don't have to buy an air conditioner or any other product made in the private sector. Could my life be miserable? Probably. But it's nothing compared to having a tax collector with the power to fine and imprison forcing me to pay taxes so we can give unions benefits that many in this forum could only dream of getting.

[we vs us]

That's not even remotely close to my point. And please, link me to a source that when all benefits and wages are factored in that Wisconsin public sector employees are being underpaid.

Here's a nice starting place.  





Red is total compensation for public employees by education; blue is total comp for private employees by education.  On every comparative level, aside from employees with less than a HS diploma, the private sector edges out the public.  


EDIT:  all info in that post comes from this report (warning: pdf).

[guido911]

Read some of the comments in wevsus link. The sane posters raise interesting points on both sides of the issue. 

[nathanm]

That's not even remotely close to my point. And please, link me to a source that when all benefits and wages are factored in that Wisconsin public sector employees are being underpaid.

The link we vs us posted is essentially the same as what I had read (same organization, different paper). Basically, Wisconsin public sector employees are already compensated similarly to their private sector counterparts (although with less wage and more benefits) and the Governor is attempting to cut their total compensation by 10% and eliminate collective bargaining. pancakes?