Unions and the Wisconsin Governor

[RecycleMichael]

The other thread was getting long and thought it could be freshened up...

I was surprised to read that some unions had actually given money to Scott Walker's campaign for Governor and other unions endorsed him.

The Milwaukee Professional Firefighters Association and Milwaukee Police Association endorsed him, with members appearing in uniform in television spots. The firefighters also gave money.

Then I realized that Governor Walker didn't include police and fire workers in his quest to eliminate collective bargaining. Those unions will still be able to have collective bargaining for their rights, pay, and pensions.

What a slimeball Scott Walker has turned out to be. He attacks unions everyday in the media and says they must be stopped. Well, except for the unions that gave him money.

[Townsend]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/fox-news-fake-footage-for-wisconsin-protest-violence

Monday's O'Reilly Factor used footage from a protest in Sacramento to seemingly exaggerate the violence of union protests in Wisconsin. The giveaway: Palm trees.

[guido911]

The other thread was getting long and thought it could be freshened up...

I was surprised to read that some unions had actually given money to Scott Walker's campaign for Governor and other unions endorsed him.

The Milwaukee Professional Firefighters Association and Milwaukee Police Association endorsed him, with members appearing in uniform in television spots. The firefighters also gave money.

Then I realized that Governor Walker didn't include police and fire workers in his quest to eliminate collective bargaining. Those unions will still be able to have collective bargaining for their rights, pay, and pensions.

What a slimeball Scott Walker has turned out to be. He attacks unions everyday in the media and says they must be stopped. Well, except for the unions that gave him money.

Well if you had bothered to read the entire "other" thread, you would have seen that I already tamped down this ignorant dem talking point. Here's the link.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=hdqG6USUaG

4 out of 314 public safety unions endorsed Walker.

[guido911]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/fox-news-fake-footage-for-wisconsin-protest-violence

This dem talking point was also tamped down today.

The Internet is abuzz this morning with a story that Fox News has "lied" in showing a video of an angry union protester from California while claiming its from Wisconsin. The "Palm Tree lie" (described as such because the tropical trees in the background of the protest video are used as proof of the deception) was the top two stories on Reddit's Politics board this morning. They needn't have tried so hard. While, in the 43-second clip that's being linked to on YouTube, it does look like Fox News lied, but watching the entire segment for context makes it clear that they did not.

The segment in question occurred during The O'Reilly Factor as Bill O'Reilly was discussing the anger in the union protests. At the top of the piece, he rolled footage of a number of the "union thug" videos that have become so popular on Right Wing news sites in the past few weeks. O'Reilly clearly identified the videos as collectively coming from "all over the country." As many shows do, this B-roll footage was replayed again during the rest of the segment, including during an interview with Mike Tobin, Fox News' reporter who's been on the ground in Wisconsin.

Here's where the problem occurred. Tobin was discussing Wisconsin (since that where he's been) while the general footage played in the background. Taken out of context, these few seconds would seem deceptive. But, if you'd already seen the full segment, you'd recognize what the footage was (besides, this same clip has aired on other Fox News programs like Glenn Beck and been identified as coming from California). Further, the protest footage from Wisconsin is clearly labeled "Madison" as well as date and time stamped, while the "palm tree footage" is labeled "Union Protests." Confusing? Not really, though if one were to simply see the 43-second clip on YouTube, one could reasonably raise their eyebrows. A reminder of the importance of context.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/no-fox-news-did-not-lie-with-wisconsin-palm-tree-violent-protest-video/

[Ed W]

Hmmmm.  Then why this?

"Fox News will not be moving into Canada after all! The reason: Canadian regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada's right-wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news..."

http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/9037-fox-news-lies-keep-them-out-of-canada.html

Maybe we need a law that forbids lying on the news, but of course, Fox would be the first to complain about the heavy hand of government and excessive regulation, rather than honesty, integrity, and ethics.

[guido911]

Hmmmm.  Then why this?

"Fox News will not be moving into Canada after all! The reason: Canadian regulators announced last week they would reject efforts by Canada's right-wing Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, to repeal a law that forbids lying on broadcast news..."

http://mwcnews.net/focus/politics/9037-fox-news-lies-keep-them-out-of-canada.html

Maybe we need a law that forbids lying on the news, but of course, Fox would be the first to complain about the heavy hand of government and excessive regulation, rather than honesty, integrity, and ethics.

Fox News is already being carried by several cablers in Canada, according to a comment at your link. And are you saying that Fox News, and only Fox News, lies? I don't remember Dan Rather or all those newsers blaming the tea party for the Tucson massacre working for Fox.

[Ed W]

Governor Walker's arrogance and self-righteous attitude toward Wisconsin's unions has been readily apparent.  He refuses to negotiate.  He refuses to compromise.  To some that's no doubt a heroic stance, but to others it looks more like intransigence.  Worse, he's shown that, in private at least, he's willing to lie to further his goal of destroying the unions.  He was willing to consider using agents provocateur. 

Like many governors, he probably has presidential ambitions.  And he's willing to smash the unions and the Wisconsin families that depend on those unions, using them as a stepping stone toward Washington.  I find little to admire in such a combination of power, arrogance, and mendacity.

[guido911]

Governor Walker's arrogance and self-righteous attitude toward Wisconsin's unions has been readily apparent.  He refuses to negotiate.  He refuses to compromise.  To some that's no doubt a heroic stance, but to others it looks more like intransigence.  Worse, he's shown that, in private at least, he's willing to lie to further his goal of destroying the unions.  He was willing to consider using agents provocateur.  

Like many governors, he probably has presidential ambitions.  And he's willing to smash the unions and the Wisconsin families that depend on those unions, using them as a stepping stone toward Washington.  I find little to admire in such a combination of power, arrogance, and mendacity.

Negotiate what and with whom? Walker has a vision and a goal, much like Obama had with health care reform, and he wants to see it through. He was elected and should be allowed to move forward. Or, does "elections have consequences" only work when dems are elected.

And for agents provocateur, please link to a site where this is happening. Oh, and where were you when the tea party was being infiltrated by leftists. Remember these guys?

Come on Ed, you are better than this. Stop with the selective outrage.

[nathanm]

Cognitive dissonance much, guido?

This thread isn't about what unions or lefties or whoever you're railing against are doing. It's about the Governor of Wisconsin and his acting like a child. I thought we had all decided such behavior was unseemly toward the end of the Bush administration.

[Ed W]

Sometimes, the difference is between right and left, but in this instance, it's between right and wrong.  Walker is clearly wrong, despite the video red herrings and attempts to derail this thread.  Ideology is a poor substitute for morality.

[guido911]

Cognitive dissonance much, guido?

This thread isn't about what unions or lefties or whoever you're railing against are doing. It's about the Governor of Wisconsin and his acting like a child. I thought we had all decided such behavior was unseemly toward the end of the Bush administration.

Acting like a child? What a a hilarious reference. "Children" are those that take their marbles and go home when they do not like what's happening. That's what 14 dem senators did. Massive failure. But please, continue.

[Hoss]

Acting like a child? What a a hilarious reference. "Children" are those that take their marbles and go home when they do not like what's happening. That's what 14 dem senators did. Massive failure. But please, continue.

[guido911]

Sometimes, the difference is between right and left, but in this instance, it's between right and wrong.  Walker is clearly wrong, despite the video red herrings and attempts to derail this thread.  Ideology is a poor substitute for morality.

I meant to not introduce a "red herring" in this discussion, even though I do not think it remotely reaches that. The point is that if you and others are going to accuse Walker of being an "agent provocateur", and presumably in order to demean the governor, then you must be consistent in your criticism. In my opinion, you clearly were not. And accusing me of a fallacy? Please consider what you are saying first.

[RecycleMichael]

4 out of 314 public safety unions endorsed Walker.

I know. That is why it is so disturbing.

He clearly made a deal with four of the unions before the election. It was all a lie to make people think he cared about unions. Remember, he never said a word about getting rid of collective bargaining until after the election.

Thank you for agreeing with me. It is so wrong of him to exempt the unions that supported him and go after the other unions so strong.

His motives are clear. Protect those he can make a deal with and attack the others.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Suppose a fourth of the teachers there decide to just leave?  Try to avoid the glib BS, just seriously think about it.  And when they are gone, another 10%.  Then another 10% get sick and tired of the crap.

I guess it would make the RWRE happy, since the expressed intention is the destruction of the public school system in this country.  Then they can have their kids go to their exclusive private schools.  And who cares about the lower 50 - 60% of the lower economic class people that cannot afford those schools.  After all, the RWRE will have to have someone to clean their houses and take care of the yards.

Attacking the teachers this way is mean, vicious, and short sighted.  And may well bring some serious chaos to Wisconsin that will be much more costly than what is in existence today.  But then, you can always count on the RWRE to be unencumbered by intellect.