Unions and the Wisconsin Governor

[Gaspar]

Massive FAIL.

Out of state unions just spent millions and millions of dollars in member dues to purchase and produce attack ads against Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin, only to hear the giant flushing sound of all that money going down the drain.  The people have spoken (again) and the Republican majority prevails. 

[RecycleMichael]

The Koch Brothers matched every dollar. One republican just spent $8 million on her campaign.

People were pissed and two of the six worst republicans just got recalled.

How is this a victory for republicans?

[AquaMan]

Geez, Gas. Just change a few words and you have what really happened.

Republicans spent gobs of money (and integrity) to hold onto seats they had already spent gobs of money to acquire. They lost as soon as the recalls were authorized. They lose even bigger next election when the full impact of their Draconian measures take effect and they fail to shift blame to Obama.

[Gaspar]

The Koch Brothers matched every dollar. One republican just spent $8 million on her campaign.

People were pissed and two of the six worst republicans just got recalled.

How is this a victory for republicans?

It was no victory for anyone, however it was a failure for the unions, because it cost them tens of millions of dollars to achieve very little.  

[Gaspar]

Geez, Gas. Just change a few words and you have what really happened.

Republicans spent gobs of money (and integrity) to hold onto seats they had already spent gobs of money to acquire. They lost as soon as the recalls were authorized. They lose even bigger next election when the full impact of their Draconian measures take effect and they fail to shift blame to Obama.

Unions spend tens of millions of their member's money. 

These unions now function primarily as a political organization.  I wonder what would happen if a teacher said, "no I do not want to be a member of the union, because I do not believe in their politics." 

I wonder if she could keep her job?

[RecycleMichael]

The republicans lost two seats. The republicans were forced to spend millions of dollars less than nine months after they spent millions of dollars to get elected. Yet you think unions failed.

What color is the sky in your world?

[Conan71]

Unions spend tens of millions of their member's money.  

These unions now function primarily as a political organization.  I wonder what would happen if a teacher said, "no I do not want to be a member of the union, because I do not believe in their politics."  

I wonder if she could keep her job?

Funds which could have gone to, well I dunno, maybe a better pension plan.

RM- if the Koch brothers funded it all, the Repugs aren't out any real money.  Where did you hear they were the big backers on this in the first place?  To be honest, I've not followed it closely.

[AquaMan]

If you buy into the argument that this was Unions (bad guys) vs Republicans (good guys) then I can see how you draw the conclusion that the good guys won 4-2. I just don't. Its sophomoric. Even though the media frames it that way for simplicity and ratings. Republicans lost big on this gambit. Money that could have been spent in the next election. Good will and reputation squandered with a large section of voters, a lot of them independents, who can't see demolishing collective bargaining as an effective solution to economic problems. They won a battle and continue to position themselves to lose the war.

The Republicans want to continue the neutering process of what they see as an enemy since their corporate funders assure them that is the truth. It is so lame to say union fees are being used (without tacit approval) in a political battle without admitting that stockholders fund their opposition in the same way (without tacit approval).

Anyway, Gas, why would you care about republicans in Wisconsin? Aren't you allegedly independent? Or is it because you buy the fallacy that organizing labor is bad, but organizing stockholders is saintly?

[Gaspar]

Or is it because you buy the fallacy that organizing labor is bad, but organizing stockholders is saintly?

I think you have it.  Labor organizations used to exist to protect the rights of the workers. That is no longer its function.  Today they exist primarily for the extortion of business owners and shareholders.  Their primary tool is force.  Their primary victim is the consumer who must pay a higher price for goods and services or choose to shop elsewhere. The secondary victim is their membership who becomes both dependent on their services and indentured to fund them.  Individuality, exceptionalism and innovation are discouraged and tenure rewarded.

Government unions are even worse, because their primary victim is the public and they do not fear deficit.  They understand that even more extortion is possible, because state money is only a tax away.  They don't have to worry about bankrupting the company. 

As for your other comment about organizing stockholders, keep in mind that stockholders and business owners produce and create jobs.  Unions produce nothing.

[Conan71]

I think you have it.  Labor organizations used to exist to protect the rights of the workers. That is no longer its function.  Today they exist primarily for the extortion of business owners and shareholders.  Their primary tool is force.  Their primary victim is the consumer who must pay a higher price for goods and services or choose to shop elsewhere. The secondary victim is their membership who becomes both dependent on their services and indentured to fund them.  Individuality, exceptionalism and innovation are discouraged and tenure rewarded.

Government unions are even worse, because their primary victim is the public and they do not fear deficit.  They understand that even more extortion is possible, because state money is only a tax away.  They don't have to worry about bankrupting the company. 

As for your other comment about organizing stockholders, keep in mind that stockholders and business owners produce and create jobs.  Unions produce nothing.

Uh, damn...

That's a great summary.

[AquaMan]

I think you have it.  Labor organizations used to exist to protect the rights of the workers. That is no longer its function.  Today they exist primarily for the extortion of business owners and shareholders.  Their primary tool is force.  Their primary victim is the consumer who must pay a higher price for goods and services or choose to shop elsewhere. The secondary victim is their membership who becomes both dependent on their services and indentured to fund them.  Individuality, exceptionalism and innovation are discouraged and tenure rewarded.

Government unions are even worse, because their primary victim is the public and they do not fear deficit.  They understand that even more extortion is possible, because state money is only a tax away.  They don't have to worry about bankrupting the company. 

As for your other comment about organizing stockholders, keep in mind that stockholders and business owners produce and create jobs.  Unions produce nothing.

My Gawd man. You have been brainwashed. Indoctrinated. You might as well be part of a cult. You used every entrenched falsehood and veiled slur I have ever heard used by someone who totally misunderstands the current and historical roles of labor and business(your past posts have confirmed that.) It all starts with your pre-conceived notion that Unions "used" to be about rights. Yeah, once you label her a whore it's no longer rape.

Keep in mind that labor runs the company for stockholders and business owners. Produce and create jobs without them if you can. Mechanize, digitize, outsource as much as you can, it still takes a human to run your precious capital goods.  That labor is also your largest consumer. Even frickin' Henry Ford understood that.

It is insufferable the arrogance you show towards labor. I dearly hope that when you "time out" at 50 you have to work an hourly paid job again.

[Gaspar]

My Gawd man. You have been brainwashed. Indoctrinated. You might as well be part of a cult. You used every entrenched falsehood and veiled slur I have ever heard used by someone who totally misunderstands the current and historical roles of labor and business(your past posts have confirmed that.) It all starts with your pre-conceived notion that Unions "used" to be about rights. Yeah, once you label her a whore it's no longer rape.

Keep in mind that labor runs the company for stockholders and business owners. Produce and create jobs without them if you can. Mechanize, digitize, outsource as much as you can, it still takes a human to run your precious capital goods.  That labor is also your largest consumer. Even frickin' Henry Ford understood that.

It is insufferable the arrogance you show towards labor. I dearly hope that when you "time out" at 50 you have to work an hourly paid job again.

You don't get it, but that's OK.

[AquaMan]

You don't get it, but that's OK.

You're right, I will never understand cultists. And there is no use in trying to reason with them. But that's ok.

[RecycleMichael]

RM- if the Koch brothers funded it all, the Repugs aren't out any real money.  Where did you hear they were the big backers on this in the first place? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html

And look at this dirty trick played by the Koch Brothers...

This week, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported: "In recent days, the conservative group Americans for Prosperity has sent out absentee ballot applications to voters — including Democratic activists — in two state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the material after the date of the election. ... In recent days, the state chapter of AFP mailed out fliers telling voters to return the absentee ballot applications to their city clerk before Aug. 11, even though the election date for the two districts receiving the mailers is Aug. 9."

The Koch Brothers fund a campaign where they sent democrats in certain districts fake absentee ballots with a fake Election Board P.O. box address for return and a date that was after the election.

[Gaspar]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html

And look at this dirty trick played by the Koch Brothers...

This week, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported: "In recent days, the conservative group Americans for Prosperity has sent out absentee ballot applications to voters — including Democratic activists — in two state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the material after the date of the election. ... In recent days, the state chapter of AFP mailed out fliers telling voters to return the absentee ballot applications to their city clerk before Aug. 11, even though the election date for the two districts receiving the mailers is Aug. 9."

The Koch Brothers fund a campaign where they sent democrats in certain districts fake absentee ballots with a fake Election Board P.O. box address for return and a date that was after the election.

The misleading ballot was actually sent to all six districts where Republicans are facing August 9th recalls, as well as the two democrat recalls.  It was intended to only be sent to the districts where the two Democrats face recalls on the August 16th.

It was the mistake of the printing company who acknowledged sending the ballots to all districts by accident.  Because the ballots went Republican voters in these Republican districts, most of the damage (if any) was done to Republican voters.

The AFP has apologized for the mistake and as for the controversy being pushed by KOS and HuffPo, they've issued a rather brief statement " I guess they think we would want to intentionally confuse our own members! It does not take a rocket scientist to see that their attack is nonsensical."