Unions and the Wisconsin Governor

[RecycleMichael]

All lies.

They printed fake ballots with instructions to return them to their own P.O. Box.

Please. Oh, Mister Apologist for these criminals, explain why someone would do that?

[nathanm]

While printing actual fake ballots is going a little farther, it's been pretty typical for Republicans in highly contested districts in certain swing states to send material stating that the election is later than it really is since at least 2004. They've also been caught sending stuff to keep voters home, like mailers stating that a voter needs a driver's license to vote even in states where there is no (ridiculous, IMO) voter ID law.

[AquaMan]

RM, you don't really expect an answer do you? Might as well ask a Scientologist.

[RecycleMichael]

This scandal is worse to me than anything that gaspar wrote about Acorn and trying to register aliens to vote.

They selected certain voters , then tried to confuse them to make them think they were already voting, then would throw away any that voted for a democrat. It is nothing less than despicable.

[Conan71]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html

And look at this dirty trick played by the Koch Brothers...

This week, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported: "In recent days, the conservative group Americans for Prosperity has sent out absentee ballot applications to voters — including Democratic activists — in two state Senate recall districts with instructions to return the material after the date of the election. ... In recent days, the state chapter of AFP mailed out fliers telling voters to return the absentee ballot applications to their city clerk before Aug. 11, even though the election date for the two districts receiving the mailers is Aug. 9."

The Koch Brothers fund a campaign where they sent democrats in certain districts fake absentee ballots with a fake Election Board P.O. box address for return and a date that was after the election.

Sounds like they took cues from the Chicago crew

[Gaspar]

All lies.

They printed fake ballots with instructions to return them to their own P.O. Box.

Please. Oh, Mister Apologist for these criminals, explain why someone would do that?

Wow!  Where did you get that.  I'll get a copy for you.  It was a letter and a Ballot Application, not a ballot.  In the letter it had the date for the recall vote at August 16th, and stated that absentee voters must return their ballots no later than the 11th.  

It did not mention the vote on the 9th, because it was not intended to be sent to that district.

Furthermore, it was sent out to the address list for members of Americans for Prosperity (a conservative group).  At least 2 of the ballots incorrectly arrived to Democrats, this is known because only two democrats filed complaints.  The majority of the complaints filed were from members of AFP highlighting the incorrect date.

So. . .There was no ballot sent, nor was this targeted at democrats.  

Here is a copy of the documents sent.  http://www.politico.com/static/PPM187_ballotapp.html

Nothing sticks in my craw worse than members who normally participate in intelligent debate accusing other members of "lies."  

We all have opinions and the goal is to be able to support your opinions with fact.  Sometimes that is simple, sometimes opinions must simply remain opinions.

[Gaspar]

I must make a correction.  Absentee Ballot Application Processing Center, P.O. Box 1327, Madison WI is an office used by AFP.

If they are not sending out Absentee Ballots to respondents than they are certainly committing a crime.  This is however not unheard of for political groups to hand out Absentee Ballots to their supporters.  Every political organization including Acorn does this.  Acorn used to "help" people fill out the ballots.

So, all we need do is watch and see if they are suspect in processing the distribution of ballots.

[RecycleMichael]

http://www.alternet.org/news/151895/did_koch_group_team_up_with_religious_right_to_suppress_wisconsin_vote/?page=entire

Wisconsin Democrats have reason to be suspicious of Americans For Propserity's electoral activities. Last October, One Wisconsin Now, a progressive group, obtained undercover audio recording of the meeting of a local Tea Party group, the Grandsons of Liberty, in which a vote-caging scheme was laid out that involved mailers that AFP agreed to send out to voters in left-leaning districts in Milwaukee. The addresses were provided via the Republican Party of Wisconsin, through the state's Voter Vault. (At that time the state GOP was led by Reince Priebus, who has since gone on to head the Republican National Committee, an apparent reward for his fine work in Wisconsin.) In the vote-cage scheme, mailers were sent in August to districts in which much of the housing was in college dormitories. They had "do not forward" instructions printed on the outside, so that the votes of those whose flyers bounced back to AFP could be challenged at the polls. (Of course, many of the students had moved out of their dorms by August, and would return to new room assignments two months before the election.)

Just a minor typo my donkey.

[Gaspar]

http://www.alternet.org/news/151895/did_koch_group_team_up_with_religious_right_to_suppress_wisconsin_vote/?page=entire

Wisconsin Democrats have reason to be suspicious of Americans For Propserity's electoral activities. Last October, One Wisconsin Now, a progressive group, obtained undercover audio recording of the meeting of a local Tea Party group, the Grandsons of Liberty, in which a vote-caging scheme was laid out that involved mailers that AFP agreed to send out to voters in left-leaning districts in Milwaukee. The addresses were provided via the Republican Party of Wisconsin, through the state's Voter Vault. (At that time the state GOP was led by Reince Priebus, who has since gone on to head the Republican National Committee, an apparent reward for his fine work in Wisconsin.) In the vote-cage scheme, mailers were sent in August to districts in which much of the housing was in college dormitories. They had "do not forward" instructions printed on the outside, so that the votes of those whose flyers bounced back to AFP could be challenged at the polls. (Of course, many of the students had moved out of their dorms by August, and would return to new room assignments two months before the election.)

Just a minor typo my donkey.

Has any actual news source reported that, or anyone actually heard the alleged recording?  I don't consider rumors by Alternet a news source. 

[RecycleMichael]

Earlier in this thread you posted from reason.com.

We are supposed to accept your crazy sources, but you not ours?

[Hoss]

Earlier in this thread you posted from reason.com.

We are supposed to accept your crazy sources, but you not ours?

Kinda funny.  You know, how double standards work and all?

[Gaspar]

Earlier in this thread you posted from reason.com.

We are supposed to accept your crazy sources, but you not ours?

I posted opinion, not conspiracy with alleged evidence that cannot be produced.

[RecycleMichael]

Listen here

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/21/gop-and-tea-party-team-up-to-obstruct-voters-in-wisconsin-plot-caught-on-tape/

transcript here

http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/swv2010/Press%20Conference%20Transcript%202010.09.20.pdf

[RecycleMichael]

You really should be careful before you say evidence can't be produced. Oops, I meant to say alleged evidence.

[Gaspar]

You really should be careful before you say evidence can't be produced. Oops, I meant to say alleged evidence.

I just read that.  Basically they identified a number of problems that in many cases are never caught, or are caught after the elections.

1. People filing absentee ballots and voting in person are typically not caught by the clerks.
2. People who move to a new district, but vote in both their old and new districts because their names are still on both rolls.
3. People who claim student status that show up to vote with no identification or address validation.


Their solution with the assistance of AFP is to help distribute the ballot applications, collect name and address information and compare that to registration information (basically what the clerks are supposed to do but don't have the manpower), and compare voters who file multiple ballots in multiple districts, and spot and investigate multiple registered voters at single addresses (if 200 people live in the same apartment, you may have a fraud).

"So the goal is let's find the voter fraud ahead of time and eliminate as much of
it before the elections as we can and put pressure on the authorities who are supposed to be doing
something and to stop treating it as a victimless crime because we're all victims of it and let's do
something."


I'm still not seeing a conspiracy?