Shame on the carpenters union for flying the USA Flag upside down

[guido911]

It's just a favorite talking point by one or more on TNF.

Yep.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Illegals are an integral part of the economy and definitely participants in construction as well as many other industries.

Wouldn't it be nice if this country that pounds its chest and trumpets so much about be a country that respects the "rule of law" would actually enforce its laws??  And if those laws are inadequate, make the penalties for those encouraging the illegal behavior serious enough to end the behavior.  The Oklahoma law took a shot at it.  Didn't stick.  Must be on federal level.

[cannon_fodder]

So what you're saying is that the union is harassing TU because the federal government doesn't have a workable immigration policy? 

Oh I didn't realize that. They should make their sign more clear.  I though they were pretending it was a "labor dispute."

[we vs us]

The carpenter's union is "protesting" jobs that they overbid.  You ask too much money for the job, you don't get hired.  But that's not good enough for the entitled fools in charge, so they try to shame the buyer into a different frame of mind, one where the labor is simply paid as much as they ask without regard to anything else.  Fools then hire indigents that have no connection to the union to "protest", i.e. stand around near the signs all day.  Or part of the day.  Or take naps.  Have you been unaware of this ongoing nonsense since 2008 or so?

I thought this was a really interesting response about the bid process.  IMO it mistakenly assumes that the process ends with the award of the bid.  The free market allows for all sorts of innovation to claw business back or to shape the environment in which future bids are issued.  This happens to be a relatively innovative way to do both.  Whether it succeeds is a different matter, but it's undeniably a marketing strategy.

You don't have to award a bid to the lowest bidder and you don't have to award a bid to someone you like. I think it's interesting that we think there's a "fair" way to compete for the bid and an "unfair" way, and that by mounting shady street protests it steps outside the allowable bounds. 

[Conan71]

I thought this was a really interesting response about the bid process.  IMO it mistakenly assumes that the process ends with the award of the bid.  The free market allows for all sorts of innovation to claw business back or to shape the environment in which future bids are issued.  This happens to be a relatively innovative way to do both.  Whether it succeeds is a different matter, but it's undeniably a marketing strategy.

You don't have to award a bid to the lowest bidder and you don't have to award a bid to someone you like. I think it's interesting that we think there's a "fair" way to compete for the bid and an "unfair" way, and that by mounting shady street protests it steps outside the allowable bounds. 

They are employing tactics not much different than how the mob does things: intimidation. 

"Employ us or we will send homeless people to protest on or near your property for the next several years."

Oh, and Buckeye, I like the way you summarized it: "Protesting jobs they overbid."

[Red Arrow]

You don't have to award a bid to the lowest bidder and you don't have to award a bid to someone you like.

Nor does one have to accept a bid just because it's union.  Well, at least not in every location.

A purchasing agent once told me to get 5 bids.  Throw out both the highest and lowest bids.  Then choose among the middle priced ones.

[patric]

It could be worse, like these strong arm tactics yesterday, from the Wall Street Journal:

Dated March 28, 2011, the letter is addressed to "DEAR UNION GROVE AREA BUSINESS OWNER/MANAGER," in Racine County. And it begins with this warm greeting: "It is unfortunate that you have chosen 'not' to support public workers rights in Wisconsin. In recent past weeks you have been offered a sign(s) by a public employee(s) who works in one of the state facilities in the Union Grove area. These signs simply said 'This Business Supports Workers Rights,' a simple, subtle and we feel non-controversial statement given the facts at this time."

The letter is signed by Jim Parrett, the "Field Rep." for Council 24 of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, which is the most powerful union in the AFL-CIO.

The missive concludes by noting that, "With that we'd ask that you reconsider taking a sign and stance to support public employees in this community. Failure to do so will leave us no choice but do [sic] a public boycott of your business. And sorry, neutral means 'no' to those who work for the largest employer in the area and are union members."

[guido911]

It could be worse, like these strong arm tactics yesterday, from the Wall Street Journal:

Dated March 28, 2011, the letter is addressed to "DEAR UNION GROVE AREA BUSINESS OWNER/MANAGER," in Racine County. And it begins with this warm greeting: "It is unfortunate that you have chosen 'not' to support public workers rights in Wisconsin. In recent past weeks you have been offered a sign(s) by a public employee(s) who works in one of the state facilities in the Union Grove area. These signs simply said 'This Business Supports Workers Rights,' a simple, subtle and we feel non-controversial statement given the facts at this time."

The letter is signed by Jim Parrett, the "Field Rep." for Council 24 of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, which is the most powerful union in the AFL-CIO.

The missive concludes by noting that, "With that we'd ask that you reconsider taking a sign and stance to support public employees in this community. Failure to do so will leave us no choice but do [sic] a public boycott of your business. And sorry, neutral means 'no' to those who work for the largest employer in the area and are union members."

And this is why I will never, ever, use union labor for anything for the rest of my years.

[we vs us]

And this is why I will never, ever, use union labor for anything for the rest of my years.

Because they're all evil evil evil and whatever one does means the rest of 'em will do. 

[we vs us]

Nor does one have to accept a bid just because it's union. 

And I'm not suggesting they should.  And I'm also not suggesting that it's good or right to take it to this extreme . . . or to break legs (which is really what the Mob does, rather than, you know, picketing a job site).  My point was that we choose not to see this as a market force in action because it seems impolite and somehow against the rules or against etiquette.  I've come up against a similar level of dirty-fighting in my industry recently, too, and I have to remind myself that so long as it isn't illegal it's "legitimate competition." 

[guido911]

Because they're all evil evil evil and whatever one does means the rest of 'em will do.  

So what you are saying is what the Wisconsin unions are doing is evil then; correct? How about the Indiana AWOLers? They "evil evil evil" also?

[Red Arrow]

And I'm not suggesting they should.  And I'm also not suggesting that it's good or right to take it to this extreme . . . or to break legs (which is really what the Mob does, rather than, you know, picketing a job site).  My point was that we choose not to see this as a market force in action because it seems impolite and somehow against the rules or against etiquette.  I've come up against a similar level of dirty-fighting in my industry recently, too, and I have to remind myself that so long as it isn't illegal it's "legitimate competition."  

Maybe some of the affected businesses should picket the Union Hall protesting high prices and whatever else they could prove in court.  That would be relatively novel in recent times.  I don't know if it has been done to any significant level in the past.

[TheArtist]

Haven't read all the posts on here but imo I am glad this union group is in town.  First off they are hiring people and its money coming into the city and state from elsewhere.  Secondly its great advertising for the businesses they are protesting in front of.  (Apparently they are under some absolutely absurd and silly notion that the people in this very conservative state are on the unions side? lol)  Everyone in town already knows what this group is about and could care less at this point BUT it is good, free, attention getting, advertising.  As soon as I have something that I will be building and needing sheetrock for I will hand them a card and ask them to come protest in front of my business.  It would be a way of employing people, and not on my dime, and hey are good at catching your eye so it would be some great free advertisement. Win win    I think everyone should do this and I hope the union keeps this up for many years to come.

[TheArtist]

Maybe some of the affected businesses should picket the Union Hall protesting high prices and whatever else they could prove in court.  That would be relatively novel in recent times.  I don't know if it has been done to any significant level in the past.

Why picket them?  They might leave. The businesses are on the whole only being positively affected. Its good advertisment and hiring the protesters is putting money into the local economy.  Lets hope for more protesters. 

[guido911]

Haven't read all the posts on here but imo I am glad this union group is in town.  First off they are hiring people and its money coming into the city and state from elsewhere.  Secondly its great advertising for the businesses they are protesting in front of.  (Apparently they are under some absolutely absurd and silly notion that the people in this very conservative state are on the unions side? lol)  Everyone in town already knows what this group is about and could care less at this point BUT it is good, free, attention getting, advertising.  As soon as I have something that I will be building and needing sheetrock for I will hand them a card and ask them to come protest in front of my business.  It would be a way of employing people, and not on my dime, and hey are good at catching your eye so it would be some great free advertisement. Win win    I think everyone should do this and I hope the union keeps this up for many years to come.

Clever take.