Downtown Grocery Coming To Detroit Lofts?

[Conan71]

If you want to see a good business model which has worked against what common sense would tell you, look no further than Dwelling Spaces.  It's an Oklahoma-centric gift shop in downtown which opened before a lot of the other critical mass arrived.  I figured it had a six month life-span.

Several reasons this has worked are:

-Great service, great people staffing the place that make you want to come back
-Unusual items you don't find anywhere else in Tulsa, or not easily found elsewhere
-I'll go there because I believe it adds something to the downtown culture and I want to see it succeed.  I think others shop there because of that as well.

I think if the owners of this market will take a look at what has helped Mary Beth be a success, it will help them succeed as well.  Dumb luck won't cut it.

I like the attitude that people will support it because it's there.  I'm seeing and hearing of more people supporting local proprietors over larger chains.  I know I try to wherever possible and practical.

[Townsend]

I don't live or work downtown but I spend most of my social life there.

If the store has something to offer me, I'll use it often.  If it's not what I need, I'll see you at Reasors.

Same thing with the bars/restaurants downtown.  There are several that have what I need and a few that don't.   There are other customers for those bars/restaurants and they stay in business.

Same deal for this store...there is a need for it.  Whether it suits my needs or someone else's...we'll see.

[Cats Cats Cats]

If you want to see a good business model which has worked against what common sense would tell you, look no further than Dwelling Spaces.  It's an Oklahoma-centric gift shop in downtown which opened before a lot of the other critical mass arrived.  I figured it had a six month life-span.

Several reasons this has worked are:

-Great service, great people staffing the place that make you want to come back
-Unusual items you don't find anywhere else in Tulsa, or not easily found elsewhere
-I'll go there because I believe it adds something to the downtown culture and I want to see it succeed.  I think others shop there because of that as well.

I think if the owners of this market will take a look at what has helped Mary Beth be a success, it will help them succeed as well.  Dumb luck won't cut it.

I like the attitude that people will support it because it's there.  I'm seeing and hearing of more people supporting local proprietors over larger chains.  I know I try to wherever possible and practical.

You again assume because a place exists they are making money.  I am not saying it is losing money.  But I don't know if she is making a ton on it either.  What is a success?  $1 profit?  $10k profit?  $50k?  100k?  I am glad that it is open and want it to succeed.  So, go shop there everybody.

[RecycleMichael]

I would love a downtown place to buy beer to go. My New's Years resolution was to drink more.

Yes, I know that Quik-Trip sells beer. Believe me, I know.

[carltonplace]

I would love a downtown place to buy beer to go. My New's Years resolution was to drink more.

Yes, I know that Quik-Trip sells beer. Believe me, I know.

Does Treats on Main sell beer?

DT needs a package store....gots to have high point beer, wine and booze

[Conan71]

You again assume because a place exists they are making money.  I am not saying it is losing money.  But I don't know if she is making a ton on it either.  What is a success?  $1 profit?  $10k profit?  $50k?  100k?  I am glad that it is open and want it to succeed.  So, go shop there everybody.

Wow Charlie, I bet you must have your MBA from Harvard Bidness School with that logic.  I'd never thought of that before!

Small businesses don't stay around for four years racking by up debt and losing money.  At least not with tight credit restrictions.  Some business owners are content making a meager existence if it means they don't have to punch a clock for someone else.  I have no idea how well Dwelling Spaces does, I can simply assume it's enough to keep the owner from having to work elsewhere and I appreciate the fact it's there.  That really doesn't matter to me.  Your original assertion that downtown can't or won't support a grocery yet is wrong.  Most certainly it will, especially if they are willing to listen to the kinds of goods and services people want which they can practically and economically provide. 

[Conan71]

Does Treats on Main sell beer?

DT needs a package store....gots to have high point beer, wine and booze

I guess the current Superlegerra location was the last package store in the IDL, wasn't it?  Maybe Michael71 might consider a second store?

[Townsend]

I guess the current Superlegerra location was the last package store in the IDL, wasn't it?  Maybe Michael71 might consider a second store?

By law no person can have a 2nd package store in OK.  

Now if a husband owns one in his name then the wife can own one in her name and the son can own a distributorship like the Parkhills.  Then they can meet with others and set prices.

Anyway, I digress.

The new Grocery market needs a second door with booze, wine, and high point beer behind it.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Wow Charlie, I bet you must have your MBA from Harvard Bidness School with that logic.  I'd never thought of that before!

Small businesses don't stay around for four years racking by up debt and losing money.  At least not with tight credit restrictions.  Some business owners are content making a meager existence if it means they don't have to punch a clock for someone else.  I have no idea how well Dwelling Spaces does, I can simply assume it's enough to keep the owner from having to work elsewhere and I appreciate the fact it's there.  That really doesn't matter to me.  Your original assertion that downtown can't or won't support a grocery yet is wrong.  Most certainly it will, especially if they are willing to listen to the kinds of goods and services people want which they can practically and economically provide. 

I didn't realize it's been 4 years already.  As more people find out about it there will be more traffic and sales.  I dont follow the owners of downtown businesses possible side jobs so I will take your word for that.  And I didn say anything about bleeding money.  Even with a small loss for 3 years moving towards break even the store is worth while with increasing sales.  And, remember do not call it a grocery store.  It's a market, a food lion cant be supported downtown.  A small market with income from a possible lunch crowd and other services can be.  I can't remember ever going to a grocery store for lunch.  But I might go there.

[Conan71]

I didn't realize it's been 4 years already.  As more people find out about it there will be more traffic and sales.  I dont follow the owners of downtown businesses possible side jobs so I will take your word for that.  And I didn say anything about bleeding money.  Even with a small loss for 3 years moving towards break even the store is worth while with increasing sales.  And, remember do not call it a grocery store.  It's a market, a food lion cant be supported downtown.  A small market with income from a possible lunch crowd and other services can be.  I can't remember ever going to a grocery store for lunch.  But I might go there.

Actually I have in Wichita Falls and it was good. 

http://www.marketstreetunited.com/aboutus.asp

I still can't fathom why Tulsa couldn't have a successful concept like this in midtown or out south.  It's too big a footprint for downtown at this point since we've clarified it's a grocery store that downtown couldn't support not a market.  Thanks for the clarification.

You can get lunch at Whole Paycheck, BTW.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Actually I have in Wichita Falls and it was good. 

http://www.marketstreetunited.com/aboutus.asp

I still can't fathom why Tulsa couldn't have a successful concept like this in midtown or out south.  It's too big a footprint for downtown at this point since we've clarified it's a grocery store that downtown couldn't support not a market.  Thanks for the clarification.

You can get lunch at Whole Paycheck, BTW.

I would have thought a whole paycheck would have tried to make a smaller store downtown.  I guess they are too corporate.  This is more of a specific, have to know the area, specialty type project.  Not someplace that shows up on a spreadsheet.  I was just messing with you guys.  I just thought I would throw out the fun phrase "downtown can't support".  This place will make it, because they will make it work.  Thats what small business has over huge business.  They can tweak what works and what doesn't.  They don't have to ask permission or have somebody in a corporate office deciding what to order.  Etc. Etc.  It probably won't be easy until the new developments take hold.  Hopefully everybody makes an effort to help it along while it gets going.


BTW, that market street place is pretty big.  I guess its just a differently branded whole foods?

[Cats Cats Cats]

How big of a difference do you think brands make at the market?  A search for dog food on petco.com comes back with 363 products (including multiple size bags).  What about other types of items.  What items do you think the brand matters?  I know there are only a few items that people are picky about brands.  Probably mostly clothes or body cleaning items.  Shampoo, detergent, soap, etc.

[Gaspar]

How big of a difference do you think brands make at the market?  A search for dog food on petco.com comes back with 363 products (including multiple size bags).  What about other types of items.  What items do you think the brand matters?  I know there are only a few items that people are picky about brands.  Probably mostly clothes or body cleaning items.  Shampoo, detergent, soap, etc.

Glad you're not in marketing!

[Conan71]

I would have thought a whole paycheck would have tried to make a smaller store downtown.  I guess they are too corporate.  This is more of a specific, have to know the area, specialty type project.  Not someplace that shows up on a spreadsheet.  I was just messing with you guys.  I just thought I would throw out the fun phrase "downtown can't support".  This place will make it, because they will make it work.  Thats what small business has over huge business.  They can tweak what works and what doesn't.  They don't have to ask permission or have somebody in a corporate office deciding what to order.  Etc. Etc.  It probably won't be easy until the new developments take hold.  Hopefully everybody makes an effort to help it along while it gets going.


BTW, that market street place is pretty big.  I guess its just a differently branded whole foods?

Not so much like Whole Paycheck.  Though I've not been in there since the big expansion.  I refuse to pay snob points on my food. 

They are a unit of United Markets which I believe is about like Albertsons, Food Pyramid, and the like as far as stocking plans.  They've got a selection of fresh and organic, but it's also got plenty of processed and poisoned choices for the convenience crowd.   The cool part of the food offerings is it's more like a food court with multiple genre's and not just a deli counter or baked chickens in a plastic container next to the bakery.  Naturally you can buy wine and good beer there because it's in Texas and not Dryklohoma.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Glad you're not in marketing!

Was hoping somebody was a marketing major and could finally put their degree to use.

From 2008
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122592835021203025.html

Laundry habits are changing, too. Early signs indicate shoppers are switching to cheaper detergents and softeners, a rare shift in one of the most brand-loyal product categories.

Sales of private-label detergent rose 12% over the 52-weeks ended Sept. 6, to $189 million, according to market-data company Information Resources Inc., or IRI. Lower-priced brand-names are posting gains, too. Last week, Procter & Gamble Co. reported that volume sales of its bargain-priced Gain detergent rose 10% in the quarter ended Sept. 30, offsetting weaker results for the market-leading and pricier Tide.

Meanwhile, estimated retail sales of value-oriented Purex fabric softener, owned by Henkel AG, rose more than 60% over the past six months, the company says. "We view the economic slowdown as an opportunity for our brand," says Greg Tipsord, senior vice president of Henkel's U.S. laundry care. "It's causing the consumer to rethink what had become a habit."

So shoppers are open to change based on cost in a down economy (duh).  But I still don't know how they react to convienience of a purchase vs brand loyalty.  At what distance will somebody travel to get a specific brand they want vs just switch brands?  

http://pauravshukla.blogspot.com/2009/09/impact-of-contextual-factors-brand.html

This claims that "* loyalty was not significantly affected by past usage, expectations and convenience.
"

How can that even be possible??