Where's our Murder/Arson/Robbery Registry?!!!

[izmophonik]

I feel we're not being fair with the sex offender registry.  Let's have a registry for murder, arson, robbery...everything!  That way we know where everyone is..and let's force them all to live a mile away from any school or park after they've served their time.

wait...where did everyone go?

[swake]

I feel we're not being fair with the sex offender registry.  Let's have a registry for murder, arson, robbery...everything!  That way we know where everyone is..and let's force them all to live a mile away from any school or park after they've served their time.

wait...where did everyone go?

Sorry, but sex crimes aren't like other crimes, especially when children are involved. I don't like people having to register for taking a wiz in public but for the real predators, I'm all for the current laws and too damn bad that it makes life hard on them. Boo hoo.

[Conan71]

Sorry, but sex crimes aren't like other crimes, especially when children are involved. I don't like people having to register for taking a wiz in public but for the real predators, I'm all for the current laws and too damn bad that it makes life hard on them. Boo hoo.

Careful Swake, they might take your lifelong liberal card from you when you start spouting nonsense like that.

[izmophonik]

..Long story short.

- Brother meets girl online (he's 25 she's 20) ..we'll get to that part later.
- Relationship forms
- 6 months later they agree to meet and take a road trip together
- He drives to New York to meet her
- Road trip ensues
- Father calls cops 2 days later..reports daughter missing (she's actually 17)
- Brother has no clue.. police catch up with them in Ohio.
- She goes home to safety / He gets 10 years for kidnapping / she tries to vouch for the story in court for him
- Brother serves 10 years, realizes that he can't live ANYWHERE since 95% of Tulsa is off limits.

This is almost minority report stuff... I mean "let's put them here because we think they're going to do it again."

[izmophonik]

Sorry, but sex crimes aren't like other crimes, especially when children are involved. I don't like people having to register for taking a wiz in public but for the real predators, I'm all for the current laws and too damn bad that it makes life hard on them. Boo hoo.

You don't understand...you piss in public right now you are doomed for minimum 15 years.  You can't buy a house, you can't rent anything, you can't get a job.  Same goes for the guy who raped a 10 year old.  What do you think about that?

[swake]

..Long story short.

- Brother meets girl online (he's 25 she's 20) ..we'll get to that part later.
- Relationship forms
- 6 months later they agree to meet and take a road trip together
- He drives to New York to meet her
- Road trip ensues
- Father calls cops 2 days later..reports daughter missing (she's actually 17)
- Brother has no clue.. police catch up with them in Ohio.
- She goes home to safety / He gets 10 years for kidnapping / she tries to vouch for the story in court for him
- Brother serves 10 years, realizes that he can't live ANYWHERE since 95% of Tulsa is off limits.

This is almost minority report stuff... I mean "let's put them here because we think they're going to do it again."

Age of consent in New York is 17

[izmophonik]

Age of consent in New York is 17

I think you're referring to consent to sex.  This isn't a sex crime.  It's about him taking her out of state.."kidnapping".  Regardless, he's charged as a sex offender because of the age.

[izmophonik]

It's a constitutional issue. If the constitution doesn't protect these guys in this situation, it doesn't protect any of us.

I don't see anyone outraged at the murderer that lives next door that they don't about.

Lastly, all of the molesters that have raped BEFORE the Adam Walsh Act DO NOT have to register.  Let your brains mash that one around for a while folks.

[custosnox]

It’s a constitutional issue. If the constitution doesn’t protect these guys in this situation, it doesn’t protect any of us.

I don't see anyone outraged at the murderer that lives next door that they don't about.

Lastly, all of the molesters that have raped BEFORE the Adam Walsh Act DO NOT have to register.  Let your brains mash that one around for a while folks.

You don't have kids, do you?

[izmophonik]

You don't have kids, do you?

I have 4.  But I allow logic to prevail vs. emotions.

[Ed W]

Unlike all other crimes, sex crimes bring what amounts to a lifetime sentence.  If someone commits a robbery, he goes to prison for a few years and then gets probation.  A sex offender goes to prison, then gets probation, restrictions on where he can live, work, play, and probably even worship.  His address and photo are displayed for all and sundry to see.  In some cases, neighbors have to be notified that a convicted offender lives nearby. 

My point is that the sex offender receives a punishment that outlasts his sentencing and probation.  In the abstract, that's disturbing as we claim to eschew cruel and unusual punishment.  Ideally, a sex offender would receive medical treatment to modify his behavior, but I suspect that such behavior is so deeply ingrained that it would take Orwellian methods to alter it.  And that too is a form of cruel and unusual punishment.

There's no easy, pat answer to this.  On one hand, I want sex offenders to be treated fairly and justly under the law.  On the other hand, I don't want one near my kids.

[Conan71]

It's making the assumption that sex predators are not treatable and somehow the urge to commit all other types of criminal activity just vanishes like a fart in the wind when the offender leaves prison.  If someone is deemed enough of a danger to have to wear a scarlet letter the rest of their natural life, then they very likely should not have been released from prison or treatment in the first place.  Tattooing it on their forehead and making them live five miles from civilization still won't stop them from repeating the offense if they are that deeply disturbed.

[guido911]

It's a constitutional issue. If the constitution doesn't protect these guys in this situation, it doesn't protect any of us.

I don't see anyone outraged at the murderer that lives next door that they don't about.

Lastly, all of the molesters that have raped BEFORE the Adam Walsh Act DO NOT have to register.  Let your brains mash that one around for a while folks.

Do you have a link to support your claim that the sex registry is not constitutional? Probably not because numerous court have found otherwise. In those cases, courts generally view the registry process as not criminal punishment but rather a civil regulatory process. Just for those who want to know how some courts reach those conclusions, here are some factors they apply.

[1] Whether the sanction involves an affirmative disability or restraint, [2] whether it has historically been regarded as a punishment, [3] whether it comes into play only on a finding of scienter, [4] whether its operation will promote the traditional aims of punishment—retribution and deterrence, [5] whether the behavior to which it applies is already a crime, [6] whether an alternative purpose to which it may rationally be connected is assignable for it, and [7] whether it appears excessive in relation to the alternative purpose assigned are all relevant to the inquiry, and may often point in differing directions.

Kennedy v. Mendoza–Martinez, 372 U.S. 144, 83 S.Ct. 554, 9 L.Ed.2d 644 (1963), accord, Kellar v. Fayetteville Police Dept.,  339 Ark. 274, 282-83, 5 S.W.3d 402, 407 (Ark. 1999). Here is a link to an Oklahoma appellate court opinion examining this issue in the context of an ex post facto argument.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=461514

[izmophonik]

Unlike all other crimes, sex crimes bring what amounts to a lifetime sentence.  If someone commits a robbery, he goes to prison for a few years and then gets probation.  A sex offender goes to prison, then gets probation, restrictions on where he can live, work, play, and probably even worship.  His address and photo are displayed for all and sundry to see.  In some cases, neighbors have to be notified that a convicted offender lives nearby. 

My point is that the sex offender receives a punishment that outlasts his sentencing and probation.  In the abstract, that's disturbing as we claim to eschew cruel and unusual punishment.  Ideally, a sex offender would receive medical treatment to modify his behavior, but I suspect that such behavior is so deeply ingrained that it would take Orwellian methods to alter it.  And that too is a form of cruel and unusual punishment.

There's no easy, pat answer to this.  On one hand, I want sex offenders to be treated fairly and justly under the law.  On the other hand, I don't want one near my kids.

Well said.

[izmophonik]

Do you have a link to support your claim that the sex registry is not constitutional? Probably not because numerous court have found otherwise. In those cases, courts generally view the registry process as not criminal punishment but rather a civil regulatory process. Just for those who want to know how some courts reach those conclusions, here are some factors they apply.

Kennedy v. Mendoza–Martinez, 372 U.S. 144, 83 S.Ct. 554, 9 L.Ed.2d 644 (1963), accord, Kellar v. Fayetteville Police Dept.,  339 Ark. 274, 282-83, 5 S.W.3d 402, 407 (Ark. 1999). Here is a link to an Oklahoma appellate court opinion examining this issue in the context of an ex post facto argument.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=461514

Actually I do.  

SMITH et al. v. DOE et al.

certiorari to the united states court of appeals for the ninth circuit

No. 01-729. Argued November 13, 2002--Decided March 5, 2003

The Alaska Supreme Court found their registration law unconstitutional in July 2008.  There are several challenges making its way to the Supreme Court.  Of course these sort of issues take a very long time to get sorted out.

Also, IMHO these people have been denied his or her 5TH Amendment protection of due process against double jeopardy.