Guns in the river

[Townsend]

Gaspar's a little pedantic .

And shallow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPWQVGBVXKI

[Conan71]

Here's a good summary on records retention and "registration".  Sorry for all the footnote numbers and clumsy formatting.

Source doc: http://www.lcav.org/content/retention_firearm_sales.pdf

"Retention of Firearm Sales and Background Check Records
Background

Records of background checks of prospective firearms purchasers and records of completed firearms sales are critical tools for law enforcement. These records are most useful to law enforcement when they are collected in a central database and retained indefinitely.

Federally licensed firearm dealers (FFLs) are required to conduct background checks on prospective firearms purchasers to ensure that the firearm transfer would not violate federal or state law.1   

Although background check records do not identify the firearm to be purchased, they can help law enforcement deter fraud and detect dealers who might be providing false information about a prohibited person. Corrupt dealers may attempt to hide transfers to prohibited persons by falsifying information to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), such as listing the prohibited buyer on the sales record but submitting to NICS the name of a person with a clean record.2   

By accessing the background check records, law enforcement can verify that a dealer's transaction records match the information submitted to NICS.3

Sales records, completed after a background check is approved, include information about the firearm(s) being purchased, as well as the purchaser.4   

Sales records are an indispensable tool for tracing the ownership of firearms recovered in crimes.5   

Without a central repository of firearm sales records, gun tracing is a slow, cumbersome process.6

1 Additional information on background checks is contained in the section on Background Checks. Some states also require private sellers to conduct background checks on prospective purchasers. Additional information on private sales is contained in the section on Private Sales.

2 Office of the Inspector General, U.S. Department of Justice, Inspections of Firearms Dealers by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Evaluation & Inspection Report I-2004-005 x-xi (July 2004), at http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0405/final.pdf [hereinafter Evaluation & Inspection Report].

3 Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, Survey of State Procedures Related to Firearm Sales, 2005 13 (Nov. 2006) [hereinafter Survey of State Procedures], at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ssprfs05.pdf.

4 FFLs record sales information on a federal Firearms Transaction Record (ATF Form 4473), which includes identification of the prospective purchaser and, if the transaction is approved, the firearm(s) to be purchased. Additional information on ATF Form 4473 is contained in the section on Background Checks.

5 A system of firearm registration by owners also provides law enforcement with firearm ownership information that may be used to trace crime guns. Additional information on registration is contained in the section on Registration of Firearms.

6 The National Tracing Center (NTC) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) tracks the purchase histories of crime guns recovered by federal, state, local and international law enforcement agencies. In requesting a crime gun trace, a law enforcement agency provides ATF with information on the make, model and serial number of the firearm, and the circumstances of its recovery. Using that information, ATF contacts the manufacturer of the firearm to determine which FFL purchased the gun. ATF then must contact the FFL to obtain information on the original retail purchaser of the firearm. In
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© Legal Community Against Violence 2008

Crime gun tracing also allows law enforcement to discover potential firearms trafficking and unlawful business practices by firearms dealers.7   

A number of states collect and retain firearms sales information reported by firearms dealers. Collecting sales information from dealers falls short of a complete repository, however, because it does not include transfers made by private sellers, except in jurisdictions that require private sellers to conduct transfers through licensed dealers.8

Summary of Federal Law

Background Check Records: Until 2004, information on approved NICS background checks was retained by NICS for ninety days.9   

This information helped ATF deter fraud and detect dealers who might be providing false information about a prohibited person, by inspecting a dealer's records within the ninety-day period and verifying that the records matched the information earlier submitted to NICS.10   

If discrepancies were found, ATF could conduct a further investigation of the dealer to determine whether the dealer submitted false information to NICS.11   

In a recent review of trafficking investigations, ATF determined that corrupt dealers are a significant source of trafficked firearms.12

As of July 2004, approved purchaser information is no longer kept for ninety days but is instead destroyed within twenty-four hours of the official NICS response to the dealer.13

As a result, ATF inspectors are no longer able to compare the information on file with the dealer to the information the dealer submitted to NICS. The Department of Justice Inspector General noted that the shortened retention time makes it much easier for corrupt firearm dealers to avoid detection.14   

Federal law also specifically prohibits using NICS to create any system of registration of firearms or firearm owners.15

2003, the NTC was able to identify the initial retail purchaser of a crime gun 50 to 60% of the time.

Evaluation & Inspection Report, supra note 2, at 8-9. After learning the identity of the initial retail
purchaser, agents must then contact him or her to begin the process of manually tracing each subsequent owner. 7 Id. at 8-9. 8 Detailed information on laws governing private sellers is contained in the section on Private Sales.

9 Evaluation & Inspection Report, supra note 2, at x. 10 Id. at 51-54. 11 Id. 12 Violence Policy Center et al., Comments On Regulations Proposed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Department of Justice Regarding Changes to Regulations Implementing the National Instant Criminal Background Check System 10 (Sept. 4, 2001).

13 The requirement that approved purchaser information be destroyed within twenty-four hours has been included in the appropriations bills funding the Department of Justice (which includes ATF and the FBI) every year since 2004. See Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2004, Pub. L. No. 108-199, § 617, 118 Stat. 3 (2004); Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2005, Pub. L. No. 108-447, § 615, 118 Stat. 2809, 2915 (2005); Science, State, Justice, Commerce, and Related Appropriations Act of 2006, Pub. L. No. 109-108, § 611, 119 Stat. 2290, 2336 (2005); Revised Continuing Appropriations Resolution, 2007, Pub. L. No. 110-5, 121 Stat. 8 (2007); Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2008, H.R. 3093, 100th Cong. § 511 (2007). Each of these acts contains additional provisions which restrict disclosure of data obtained by ATF via crime gun traces. In 2006, Congress failed to pass H.R. 5005, which would have codified and made permanent the restrictions on disclosure of crime gun trace data.

14 Evaluation & Inspection Report, supra note 2, at x-xi; 51-54. 15 28 C.F.R. § 25.9(b)(3).
248

The FBI maintains indefinitely the records of prospective purchasers whose applications are denied.16

Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.17

The dealer must record, "in bound form," the purchase or other acquisition of a firearm not later than the close of the next business day following the purchase or acquisition.18   

The dealer must similarly record the sale or other disposition of a firearm not later than seven days following the date of such transaction and retain Form 4473, the Firearms Transaction Record.19   

When a firearms business is discontinued, these records are delivered to the successor or, if none exists, to the Attorney General.20

With very limited exceptions, records of firearm sales are not maintained at the federal level. The National Firearms Act Branch of ATF does maintain a limited registry of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns or rifles, and silencers, known as the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.21

[carltonplace]

A partial list of what I saw just yards from the new restaurant: lawn chairs, deck chairs, lots of clothing, a 10speed bike, a tricycle, a shopping cart, a 10 stall bike rack, shoes, hats, lots of rebar sticking up and out of concrete (rowing crew beware!), a traffic barrel, one tire, lots of bedding, packs and camping material right under the first arch of the bridge with signs of recent habitation, scores of liquor bottles, and of course...two guns.

This is not only unseemly for what is called the "crown jewel" of the city but it is likely very unhealthy and unsafe. It stinks down there.

I have spent much of the last decade up and down the river from Keystone to the low water dam and this is the worst I've ever seen. If the mayor wants to truly be known as the river development mayor haul his staff down their for some photo ops and organize a clean up. If the RPA, the city and the county can't keep up with an area adjacent to their star development on the river then it bodes badly for future development.

Kids are hanging out in that storm sewer...they've done that for decades

[dbacks fan]

And the worst I ever had about 'washing off the redneck' was when my flying buddy and I went to Alexandria LA for another one of those "$100 hamburgers".  Except it was a BBQ place that escapes me now.  Yeah.  Try NW semi-rural Louisiana.  I needed a LOT of redneck soap then.  And in the distance, someone was playing "Deliverance" on the banjo.....

Sounds like an experience I had in Hattiesburg MS, when the waitress continually kept refering to me as a "D@mn Yankee" and the manager refused to do anything about it.

[Townsend]

Sounds like an experience I had in Hattiesburg MS, when the waitress continually kept refering to me as a "D@mn Yankee" and the manager refused to do anything about it.

Ever wonder how much saliva was in your food that day?

[dbacks fan]

Ever wonder how much saliva was in your food that day?

Yes that ran through my mind but I was more concerned about her family members watching me walk to my car and thinking, "Can I get into my car and out of the parking lot before Billy Joe and company can get their guns".

[Conan71]

Kids are hanging out in that storm sewer...they've done that for decades

Isn't that the outlet for Elm Creek?

[carltonplace]

Isn't that the outlet for Elm Creek?

Yes, you can travel back very far and the rooms are cavernous under veteran's park.

[Townsend]

Yes, you can travel back very far and the rooms are cavernous under veteran's park.

"They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too! "

[AquaMan]

"They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too! "

Southpark?

[Townsend]

Southpark?

Pennywise the clown from "It".  Spookiest book from my childhood.  Never looked at storm drains the same.

[AquaMan]

Killer Clowns From Outer Space seriously affected my kids. They still hate clowns.

I know kids play in the big sewers. I played in the one that ran from Owen Park to Riverside back ....well, way back. But the level of trash, filth, camp sites, etc. at this outlet is way out of control. A bike rack?! If the people eating nearby or the pedestrians walking within 40 feet of this site could actually see what is happening just out of their sight they would be pretty angry at local authorities for ignoring it. Birds, flies, bugs all are sharing time down there, in the restaurant and in the biker's faces.

Shouldn't someone in authority take responsibility?

[Conan71]

Funny I was with Waterboy.  I was thinking of Mr. Hanky

[Conan71]

Killer Clowns From Outer Space seriously affected my kids. They still hate clowns.

I know kids play in the big sewers. I played in the one that ran from Owen Park to Riverside back ....well, way back. But the level of trash, filth, camp sites, etc. at this outlet is way out of control. A bike rack?! If the people eating nearby or the pedestrians walking within 40 feet of this site could actually see what is happening just out of their sight they would be pretty angry at local authorities for ignoring it. Birds, flies, bugs all are sharing time down there, in the restaurant and in the biker's faces.

Shouldn't someone in authority take responsibility?

No, shirking responsibility seems to have been working so far.  They are all still getting a paycheck at least. 

As far as debris goes for rowers, we aren't allowed any closer to the east bank than the 4th or 5th arch under the bridge.  Unfortunately, it's been ages since I've been on the water.  The kids have been training out at Catoosa, the masters are all on their bikes, the jogging path, or their ergs.

[AquaMan]

Aquaman, sir. I know not of this h2o boy. He sleeps with the fishes from what I hear.