“I’d rather die in midtown than live in south Tulsa”

[Townsend]

I am about as fond of turnpikes as anyone but Oklahoma does not have a monopoly in that regard.

Pennsylvania TPK, NJ TPK, toll roads around Richmond VA, Florida TPK, MA TPK out of Boston, VA Beach Expressway (now free I've heard), Toll roads around Dallas, Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, Bridges across the Delaware River from Philadelphia to NJ.....  Those are just the ones I remember first hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_the_United_States

I like the idea of the turnpike reading your license plate and billing you.  That is a plus when in Dallas.  I was able to use the Bush with no stop/no pikepass to get across town.  Our toll gates are outdated.

[Red Arrow]

I like the idea of the turnpike reading your license plate and billing you.  That is a plus when in Dallas.  I was able to use the Bush with no stop/no pikepass to get across town.  Our toll gates are outdated.

I wonder how that would work if you were pulling a trailer and the view of your car license was not readable.  Since we don't need trailer licenses for small/utility trailers in OK there would be nothing at the back and we have no tags on the front of our cars either.  Free ride or a pull over by Texas' finest?

[Townsend]

 

I wonder how that would work if you were pulling a trailer and the view of your car license was not readable.  Since we don't need trailer licenses for small/utility trailers in OK there would be nothing at the back and we have no tags on the front of our cars either.  Free ride or a pull over by Texas' finest?

Out-of-staters are apparently given a free ride.  I was never billed and per some of the other posters here, neither were they.

[Red Arrow]

Out-of-staters are apparently given a free ride.  I was never billed and per some of the other posters here, neither were they.

I've heard that.  I was wondering what would happen if they couldn't identify you as out of state because the view to your car tag was obscured.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I've heard that.  I was wondering what would happen if they couldn't identify you as out of state because the view to your car tag was obscured.

Colorado has a system on their new 470 loop toll road around the north side of Denver.  No toll booths.  If you are out of state and drive the road, a few days later you get a bill in the mail from them for $7.50 each way.  Guy in office went that way about two months ago, got the bill for $15.

Don't know what they do for local people - probably the same, or maybe a pikepass approach.  I am very glad I didn't take that road when I had the chance.

[bacjz00]

I appreciate the qualification heironymous.  I'm not saying we don't have a perception problem, but if you think Texas doesn't have some of those same perception problems with East coasters, you're mistaken.  I'm not saying I'm 100% happy with Tulsa, but we don't need to be anything we're not either.  I can't help it if some Princeton-educated stock broker on Wall Street thinks there are Native Americans riding around on horseback in our state, that is 100% his problem not mine. 

One thing I will admit to...

I don't think our extensive Turnpike system and crappy state highways exactly send the message of economic prosperity and private investment capital of America.   Infrastructure in Oklahoma in general is probably some of the poorest in the country.  It doesn't reflect well on the quality of our people or our actual accomplishments.

[bacjz00]

I want the folks at Boomtown to make a "don't Jenks my midtown (or downtown)" t-shirt. 

Guess I missed this post awhile back.  IMO, this attitude is a microcosm of what's keeping Tulsa from moving forward.  Touting which "side of the tracks" you're on smacks of class warfare. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

I appreciate the qualification heironymous.  I'm not saying we don't have a perception problem, but if you think Texas doesn't have some of those same perception problems with East coasters, you're mistaken.  I'm not saying I'm 100% happy with Tulsa, but we don't need to be anything we're not either.  I can't help it if some Princeton-educated stock broker on Wall Street thinks there are Native Americans riding around on horseback in our state, that is 100% his problem not mine. 

One thing I will admit to...

I don't think our extensive Turnpike system and crappy state highways exactly send the message of economic prosperity and private investment capital of America.   Infrastructure in Oklahoma in general is probably some of the poorest in the country.  It doesn't reflect well on the quality of our people or our actual accomplishments.

Texas' biggest problem (in my view) is the arrogance and hubris.  Some of it is justified, 'cause they have accomplished much - the problem is that it is blown all out of proportion to those accomplishments.  (Big hat, no cattle syndrome.)  A lot of the Yankees I deal with from time to time pretty much let it be known that yeah, they may think OK is backward, but many of those same just flat out hate Texas/Texans.  Go figure...not sure how those connections are made in people's minds.  Regardless, this is still and likely always will be the big "flyover country".

I like Tulsa a lot.  Probably as much as any of the cheerleaders here.  I got lot's of gripes, but some of that comes with being a habitual bitcher, plus the aggravation of knowing that we could be doing many things much better.  I have literally looked at every corner of the nation with an eye to being a place I might want to live before, during, or after retirement.  Have only found two viable candidates - Toronto Canada and Flagstaff, AZ.  And neither has the kind of career infrastructure that interests me now, so would have to be later.  I, too couldn't care less what most New Yorkers think - the ones I mention were long distance friends as well as business contacts, so I did want to influence their attitudes. 

Our myopic little provincial view of the world has led us to doing actual damage to outside opportunities.  Most recent big one would be the latest set of tax cuts to 5% max.  Leaving us about $700 million in the hole.  That ripples throughout our state like those earthquakes we have enjoyed this week.  Roads, education, courts/prisons, child services, and probably myriad other things I can't think of on the spur of the moment.  We should not have made the cuts at all and used the so-called "extra" to pay off some debt (turnpikes), re-build bridges, build more prisons if we want to keep on putting people away (another discussion of ignorance in the state), keep tuition lower so more people can afford those college educations that return 10 or 20 to 1 on the investment.  FIX STUFF!!!!!

As far as bringing in massive amounts of new industry/business, well that is not just a pipe dream, but could be a very dangerous event should it actually happen.  If we were able to somehow double our business activity, we would be in an amazing, huge bowl of s*** soup.  We can't take care of the infrastructure we have, and we would then need double (or at least significantly more).  We have adequate water resources now, but doubling any activity in the state would put us in dire straits.  For every individual item of growth in economic activity, there is a corresponding growth in needs for background support, be it streets, pipes for water/gas/oil/whatever, buildings, concrete, transportation, electricity, etc.  OG&E and PSO both say there is plenty of capacity on the grid right now.  Double that?

And we have proven repeatedly and convincingly that we are not willing as a a state to do the necessary things for that activity increase.  We physically can't be Texas, and I don't think we should try until we get our internal act together better.

[rdj]

Guess I missed this post awhile back.  IMO, this attitude is a microcosm of what's keeping Tulsa from moving forward.  Touting which "side of the tracks" you're on smacks of class warfare. 

This is a riff on a shirt they sell on campus in Norman that reads, "Don't Edmond my Norman" or something along those lines.  I was obviously being tongue in cheek but the wordplay in my brain reads it as "Don't jinx my downtown" by building suburban style development downtown.

[bacjz00]

This is a riff on a shirt they sell on campus in Norman that reads, "Don't Edmond my Norman" or something along those lines.  I was obviously being tongue in cheek but the wordplay in my brain reads it as "Don't jinx my downtown" by building suburban style development downtown.

Fair enough. Some days I have a better sense of humor than others!