Jello Wrestling & Porno At The NSF

[nathanm]

I'd actually like to see Gas's response to these things.  How are these failures of government?

He's too busy calling me a communist because most of the Walton "kids" are (trying not to get sued) less than stellar examples of fine human beings. He has to meet his class warfare quota to get Heritage's check, after all.

Or maybe he just doesn't get that rich people run the gamut just like poor people do. Too busy licking boots?

[Gaspar]

I'd actually like to see Gas's response to these things.  How are these failures of government?

Sure, Lets go back to my origional question:

Beyond programs that fall within the scope of federal government (protection of constitutionally established rights of the individual ,national defense, public safety, and basic infrastructure).

NASA-Thrived on competition with the Russians, still however at what cost?  Over 700 Billion Dollars.
Polio vaccine-Public Safety
Manhattan Project-Defence
Super collider-Why is this a government project?  How is it providing any of the above.  12 Billion Dollars to crush some atoms and learn wonderful things.  Does this knowledge have value to the people at this time? If so, why don't we let private industry build supercolliders?  Oh wait. . .
Hubble space telescope-Again, great educational opportunity to take some awesome pictures and learn about deep space.  At a total of over 10 Billion to build and maintain over the years, and an additional 1 Billion to upgrade, is it something vital to us?
Interstate highways-basic infrastructure

We simply have some differences in priority.

[Conan71]

Someone explain to me how the fallout from the Manhattan Project was a success?  Pun intended.  Aside from forcing the Japanese into surrender, it's left a near 70 year legacy of global unrest.

Super collider and Hubbell?  Necessary?  How exactly has that benefitted us in the way of the greater good of society?

Government didn't create the polio vaccine, researchers at private universities with a lot of private and public funding discovered it.

Interstate highway system is a great example of the expected function of government.

I'll even grant many useful industrial and consumer goods have come from NASA and their programs.  It's also been good for many private sector jobs.

[Gaspar]

Someone explain to me how the fallout from the Manhattan Project was a success?  Pun intended.  Aside from forcing the Japanese into surrender, it's left a near 70 year legacy of global unrest.

Super collider and Hubbell?  Necessary?  How exactly has that benefitted us in the way of the greater good of society?

Government didn't create the polio vaccine, researchers at private universities with a lot of private and public funding discovered it.

Interstate highway system is a great example of the expected function of government.

I'll even grant many useful industrial and consumer goods have come from NASA and their programs.  It's also been good for many private sector jobs.

His original list had to be edited down :
Post Office
Medicare
NSA
NEA
Conservation Reserve Program
Prohibition
Social Security
Fanny May/Freddy Mac
Medicade
Amtrak
TARP
HUD
Stimulus 1 & 2
Cash for Clunkers


It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error. – Robert H. Jackson (1892-1954)

[Ed W]

Sure, Lets go back to my origional question:
NASA-Thrived on competition with the Russians, still however at what cost?  Over 700 Billion Dollars.
Polio vaccine-Public Safety
Manhattan Project-Defence
Super collider-Why is this a government project?  How is it providing any of the above.  12 Billion Dollars to crush some atoms and learn wonderful things.  Does this knowledge have value to the people at this time? If so, why don't we let private industry build supercolliders?  Oh wait. . .
Hubble space telescope-Again, great educational opportunity to take some awesome pictures and learn about deep space.  At a total of over 10 Billion to build and maintain over the years, and an additional 1 Billion to upgrade, is it something vital to us?
Interstate highways-basic infrastructure

We simply have some differences in priority.

Pure research is usually funded by the government because for-profit companies will not make the investment in something that may not have tangible results.  The Manhattan Project was an outgrowth of Fermi's research in Chicago that produced the first fission event, a controlled reaction that lead both to the atom bomb and our nuclear power industry.  His research was federally funded.

NASA brought tangible benefits for American consumers.  Our rockets were not as powerful as the Soviet's, so in order to keep weight down, we learned to miniaturize our electronics.  You and I type on the ancestors of those early developments in micro-miniaturization.  Can you imagine the satellite communications system or GPS if it were entirely in the hands of business interests?

The Super Collider is an experiment in pure physics, and so expensive that businesses won't consider underwriting it.  But the outcomes of such pure research are entirely unknown, just as Fermi's experimental atomic pile had an uncertain future. It's inevitable that such research goes down some blind alleys, but without it, progress in physics is impossible.

I have to wonder if Queen Isabella of Spain thought that spending money on a speculative venture to explore westward across the Atlantic was a worthwhile endeavor.  Yet she gambled and won an empire.

President Eisenhower met some resistance to the idea of interstate highways, but he'd seen the utility of them in Germany.  They offered a fast means of moving troops and material without the expense of the rail system.  Still, why were they funded with public money?  It would be better if all such roads were private turnpikes, since government inevitably screws them up.  

[Gaspar]

. . . for-profit companies will not make the investment in something that may not have tangible results.

And there you have it.

My work here is done. 

[nathanm]

Without government involvement, we wouldn't have rockets. Without government involvement, we wouldn't have nuclear energy. Without government involvement, we wouldn't have the Internet.

All of these things, private industry has taken and run with, but would never have made the investment in the first place. Our government's expenditures on these things have created whole new industries that didn't previously exist.

[we vs us]

And there you have it.

My work here is done. 

Just to clarify:  if the market won't support it, then it shouldn't be done?