Why did we lose this? Pontiac Museum

[TheArtist]

   I remembered a while back reading in the TW about a guy in BA who had a huge collection of Pontiac memorabelia.  The reason it caught my eye was because of all the old pontiac signs, hood ornaments, advertisements, etc. done in the the Art Deco style and with the Art Deco indian logo.  So I thought, woo, I need to get ahold of this guy to see if he might loan us a few items for the Tulsa Art Deco Museum. 

Just started to do some research today to see if I could find him only to discover that yes, indeed he has a nice collection, probably the worlds largest and most extensive collection of Pontiac cars and memorabilia from the buggy era up to recent times.

BUT...

He is opening his museum in Illinois.   Why Illinois and not Tulsa Oklahoma?.... from the article http://www.suntimes.com/photos/galleries/2825759-502/pontiac-dye-museum-car-ill.html 

", is a better fit," he said. "Their tourism is building, they have three museums [Route 66, Livingston County War and the International Walldog Mural & Sign Art] and a network of people are helping me."

Here we are trying to build our museum/tourism base, even working to build a Route 66 museum and adding several Route 66 attractions, but yet we let this gem of a collection slip away from us.

I wonder if anyone here even tried to talk to him about keeping his collection here and perhaps adding it to the stuff we are creating.


If anyone knows how I can contact Tim Dye, I would love to contact him and see if I could convince him to perhaps loan us even a few items to display in the Tulsa Art Deco Museum here.

Anyway, seems like a big loss for us for it would have dovetailed so nicely with many of the museum and Route 66 projects that are underway or planned. 

Why do these types of things always seem to happen here?

[Gaspar]

Used to love the old 6.6 Trans-Am. 

I am imagining the crowd this museum would bring. . .



Seems perfect for Oklahoma.

[Conan71]

Used to love the old 6.6 Trans-Am. 

I am imagining the crowd this museum would bring. . .

Not so much.  At least that wasn't the crowd that was here for the Pontiac convention downtown a few years ago when they got a free re-paint from the painters at the Adam's Mark.

[AquaMan]

But that's the impression and that's the answer to the question.

[we vs us]

I bet the answer is:  we prefer organic growth, and have limited means with which to court or keep orgs that have a more attractive option. 

[dbacks fan]

It appears that he has been in talks with Pontiac IL since the middle of last year, and apparently he offered it to them not the the other way around.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/business/30pontiac.html?src=twrhp

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/01/07/pontiac-oakland-musuem-is-on/

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/local/article_b0eb40fa-17bb-11e0-931f-001cc4c002e0.html

[TheArtist]

I bet the answer is:  we prefer organic growth, and have limited means with which to court or keep orgs that have a more attractive option. 

I prefer organic growth too. I prefer to support and encourage local things like businesses, or like museums, over spending time, money and effort trying to bring things in from other places (not that we shouldn't do that at all, but priority wise...).  

Don't we fund an organization to go out and "bring things in"? Wouldn't it be wise to also do a little "build up or keep what we got" here?

We are good at starting stuff.  Then once it gets good, other places snatch it from us.

I am glad there is a Museum Coalition in the works.  With some cooperation and help, we could build up a good synergy of attractions.  Just all of them working together to coordinate some complimentary shows or chipping in to promote and advertise our museums around the country, and world, would be a good idea imo.  Together, we could do a lot more and have a lot more impact than seperately.

There was a car museum here at one time, wouldn't it have been great to have kept that and merged it with this guys collection, and perhaps wrapped all of that together into a much larger and more impressive Route 66/Automobile attraction?  

[TheArtist]

It appears that he has been in talks with Pontiac IL since the middle of last year, and apparently he offered it to them not the the other way around.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/business/30pontiac.html?src=twrhp

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/01/07/pontiac-oakland-musuem-is-on/

http://www.pantagraph.com/business/local/article_b0eb40fa-17bb-11e0-931f-001cc4c002e0.html

So who from here is saying.... "Hey, why not here?"  Perhaps there was an opportunity to coordinate with something else that is going on, like some of the Route 66 stuff or other museum efforts.  I mean, the guy was apparently looking for a place to put his museum. Tulsa knew about it, but we just go, ho hum, what ever happens happens?  Also, appears that though he was looking for a place to put his museum, once the towns found out about it, they started bringing together groups and people to court him and help out his plans.  

From the third article....



"We have been on the phone nearly every single day for several weeks and we are now ready to move forward," Mayor Bob Russell announced at a City Council meeting Monday night. "But we are ready to go and we are very excited about it."

Dye has agreed to a contract that will pay him $65,000 per year to oversee the development of space, provide technical assistance and consulting and develop a series of special events to draw tourists to Pontiac, said City Administrator Bob Karls.

"The advantages of using the Old Square West building are that it has 10,000 square feet, it's downtown, and it will help attract visitors to the Route 66 Museum as well," he said.

The city will provide some improvements such as the installation of a sprinkler system, additional lighting and a door big enough to allow vehicles to be moved in and out, Karls said. The city also will assist in transporting some of the collectible items that Dye now stores in three different buildings in Oklahoma.

In return, the city will receive 50 percent of all revenue generated from a gift shop at the museum and 50 percent of what Dye earns a writer and guest speaker at Pontiac car shows and events. The deal will be reviewed in two years.

"We estimate it will cost about $200,000 to get this up and going," Karls said. "But, we plan to use TIF funds, funds that are in the Old Square West redevelopment fund and we will apply for some grants as well."

Tax increment financing money comes from property taxes set aside for economic development in the TIF district, which includes downtown.

Karls said that no funds from the city's general revenue fund will be used for the project. "

[dbacks fan]

So who from here is saying.... "Hey, why not here?"  Perhaps there was an opportunity to coordinate with something else that is going on, like some of the Route 66 stuff or other museum efforts.  I mean, the guy was apparently looking for a place to put his museum. Tulsa knew about it, but we just go, ho hum, what ever happens happens?  Also, appears that though he was looking for a place to put his museum, once the towns found out about it, they started bringing together groups and people to court him and help out his plans.  

From the third article....



"We have been on the phone nearly every single day for several weeks and we are now ready to move forward," Mayor Bob Russell announced at a City Council meeting Monday night. "But we are ready to go and we are very excited about it."

Dye has agreed to a contract that will pay him $65,000 per year to oversee the development of space, provide technical assistance and consulting and develop a series of special events to draw tourists to Pontiac, said City Administrator Bob Karls.

"The advantages of using the Old Square West building are that it has 10,000 square feet, it's downtown, and it will help attract visitors to the Route 66 Museum as well," he said.

The city will provide some improvements such as the installation of a sprinkler system, additional lighting and a door big enough to allow vehicles to be moved in and out, Karls said. The city also will assist in transporting some of the collectible items that Dye now stores in three different buildings in Oklahoma.

In return, the city will receive 50 percent of all revenue generated from a gift shop at the museum and 50 percent of what Dye earns a writer and guest speaker at Pontiac car shows and events. The deal will be reviewed in two years.

"We estimate it will cost about $200,000 to get this up and going," Karls said. "But, we plan to use TIF funds, funds that are in the Old Square West redevelopment fund and we will apply for some grants as well."

Tax increment financing money comes from property taxes set aside for economic development in the TIF district, which includes downtown.

Karls said that no funds from the city's general revenue fund will be used for the project. "

JMO, 
Everybody's running around wanting light rail/passenger rail, trolley, this business, that business, too busy looking to see what everybody else has, and not looking in their own back yard to see what's there.

(off my soap box)

[dbacks fan]

If it's still empty, (and still there) the city probably could have gotten a good deal on the old Premier Pontiac building on 11th street for it.

[dbacks fan]

Here's who you need to talk to.....

So I'm on the tourism committee of the metro chamber's One Voice campaign. In case you're not familiar, the One Voice campaign is essentially the brainstorming process whereby chamber members generate and set priorities for the Chamber's lobbying sessions in OKC and in Washington. There are other committees out there:  healthcare, transportation, economic development, etc, but because of what I do I'm on tourism.

We had our first meeting this week, and it was pretty dry and didn't get a whole lot of good ideas out on the table.  So I thought i'd see if our forum had some good ideas that needed to be addressed. What I'm looking for are tourism ideas that can be specifically addressed on the state or federal level (not local, unless they have a state or federal component).  So, for instance, everyone at the first meeting agreed that we need a downtown shuttle system, but couldn't really find a way to make that a state or fed issue. So it won't get on the list.  However, funding the OK Pop museum would need state/federal support, so that WILL make the list. 

What else needs doing around here?

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=17744.0

Seems all I here is streetcar/lightrail/passenger rail.

[we vs us]

I prefer organic growth too. I prefer to support and encourage local things like businesses, or like museums, over spending time, money and effort trying to bring things in from other places (not that we shouldn't do that at all, but priority wise...).  

My point is that since we prefer development to take a more natural course -- and fund our development funds and infrastructure accordingly -- the downside is that things can get snatched from us by places with more of those resources. 

[dbacks fan]

The population was 11,864 at the 2000 census. It is the county seat of Livingston County. The town is also the setting of the 1984 movie Grandview, U.S.A

It's half way between St. Louis and Chicago on I-55 and it has an AmTrak Station, so their infrastructure is greater than Tulsa with ~12,000 people?

It's the size of Tahlequah.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not sure how different a business a museum is, but just setting up the two business' I have done over that past 15 years, this may not be my first choice for the third (previous two - one manufacturing, one service, the next is manufacturing).  Dealings with Oklahoma Tax Commission alone are just about enough to make that decision.  It is ALMOST to the point where I would rather take it to Kansas, Missouri or Arkansas than to let those people have a penny of it, even though the taxes are likely to be just a little higher in any of those.

And dback's hit the other nail on the head.  Tulsa and Broken Arrow both are so busy doing this;

JMO,
Everybody's running around wanting light rail/passenger rail, trolley, this business, that business, too busy looking to see what everybody else has, and not looking in their own back yard to see what's there.

Makes it tough to get too excited about bringing stuff home.  The arrogance in all three can be amazing.  Actually will probably look at Nowata area before moving out of state, but it just isn't as much fun as it should/could be.  I would submit there are obstacles enough to a new business without throwing up more artificial barriers.

[Gaspar]

Out of curiosity, what will light-rail do for this city?