BA Fails At Luring Retailers

[Conan71]

Theoretically, they will all open around the same time. Not sure it is worth $900,000 for the pleasure of announcing a couple of weeks early.

BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent.  How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?

[AquaMan]

Yeah, but we all benefit from infrastructure improvements. Only sportsmen shop at Dicks. Really, its forcing all the taxpayers to be  stockholders with little or no dividend and no chance to sell their shares.

I find this sort of thing repugnant coming from the very people who lament creeping socialism and lack of corporate ethics. They are simply bribes using our money.

[Conan71]

Yeah, but we all benefit from infrastructure improvements. Only sportsmen shop at Dicks. Really, its forcing all the taxpayers to be  stockholders with little or no dividend and no chance to sell their shares.

I find this sort of thing repugnant coming from the very people who lament creeping socialism and lack of corporate ethics. They are simply bribes using our money.

If those improvements are stormwater drainage from their property, sewage, water, and ingress/egress, it really only benefits Dick's.

Huh?  What people are you talking about?

[OurTulsa]

I'm not sure we (Tulsans) are benefitting from infrastructure improvements at Tulsa Hills.  Maybe building Tulsa Hills was a pre-emptive measure for Tulsa in terms of limiting commercial growth outside the City limits on Hwy 75 going south; you know: stop the bleeding.  When it's all said and done I tend to think having Tulsa Hills is more to the detriment of Tulsa than a benefit.  And remember that's one big giant TIF district.  The developer's getting much of their money back for making public 'improvements' (though I like TIFs if they're used properly).  Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base.  The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly.  Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity.  I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region. 

I can think of a good dozen sites/existing shopping centers within the City's existing urbanized area that could have used that 'shot in the arm' kinda reinvestment and could have been made really nice and accommodated much of that retail development with half the cost of infrastructure investment. But then I guess they (THills) don't get the scale they were after.

All the garbage that is in the aggregate BA will catch up to them and start to deteriorate.  In time BA will be a very undesirable place.  It won't patina - it'll rust.  The newness will be somewhere else.

[RecycleMichael]

Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base.  The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly.  Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity.  I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region. 

You sound like one of those crazy mid-town elites who only shop at Utica Square.

Tulsa Hills is drawing sales tax dollars from Glenpool, Sapulpa, Okmulgee. It has become a draw for many southwest Tulsans, including the massive retirement community called Inverness Village. 

Having a bunch of national chain stores and restaurants ain't hurting the shops at Utica Square. Stop worrying.

[rdj]

Tulsa Hills has been great for the city.  If anything, it has shown that you can develop in West Tulsa.  In my opinion, it has unlocked west Tulsa for residential development.

[Teatownclown]

BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent.  How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?

ZILCH....

[Conan71]

I'm not sure we (Tulsans) are benefitting from infrastructure improvements at Tulsa Hills.  Maybe building Tulsa Hills was a pre-emptive measure for Tulsa in terms of limiting commercial growth outside the City limits on Hwy 75 going south; you know: stop the bleeding.  When it's all said and done I tend to think having Tulsa Hills is more to the detriment of Tulsa than a benefit.  And remember that's one big giant TIF district.  The developer's getting much of their money back for making public 'improvements' (though I like TIFs if they're used properly).  Tulsa Hills merely spreads our urbanized area out and adds to our inventory of public infrastructure without really adding tax base.  The City's not really growing in terms of population or commercial opportunity, at least not significantly.  Tulsa Hills, I think, mostly shifts the location of retail activity.  I don't think there's anything unique about THills that draws people from outside the region. 

I can think of a good dozen sites/existing shopping centers within the City's existing urbanized area that could have used that 'shot in the arm' kinda reinvestment and could have been made really nice and accommodated much of that retail development with half the cost of infrastructure investment. But then I guess they (THills) don't get the scale they were after.

All the garbage that is in the aggregate BA will catch up to them and start to deteriorate.  In time BA will be a very undesirable place.  It won't patina - it'll rust.  The newness will be somewhere else.

My memory of the TIF details are sketchy.  Do you remember what the terms were and does it extend to any nearby new housing developments?  Don't discount the benefit of the jobs created which do help trickle money back into the local economy, though the argument can be made that without an influx of new residents or people coming from out of town to shop, it's simply cannibalizing jobs and sales tax collections from elsewhere in Tulsa.

What other sites in Tulsa did you have in mind?  I'm trying to think of what sort of space is available in high traffic areas or at least another new corner we would want to develop and I'm not coming up with anything.

From what I'm seeing in other areas, this seems to be the current state of "mall" development, all free-standing or semi-linked store fronts.  There's a similar development in Midwest City on SE 29th between Air Depot and Douglas fronting I-40 & Tinker AFB.  As well, there are similar developments in Moore & Norman while Crossroads Mall and the Mall at Air Depot & Reno sit virtually vacant and dormant.

[Townsend]

Tulsa Hills has been great for the city.  If anything, it has shown that you can develop in West Tulsa.  In my opinion, it has unlocked west Tulsa for residential development.

There's considerable development on the West side of 75 now and more on the South end of Tulsa Hills.

As far as BA and retail didn't they just get a Super Walmart and a couple of super Targets?  I'm thinking they got a bunch of new stuff along 71st too?

[Conan71]

ZILCH....

So Dick's is paying for all the site improvements?  Cool! 

[Teatownclown]

So Dick's is paying for all the site improvements?  Cool! 

I did not say that....the developers/landlords are paying for it in Teatown. Dick's pays them back over time unlike municipal welfare in BA's attempt to shift the cost/benefit onto the public sector a la socialism. I don't hear you crying "shame."

[heironymouspasparagus]

What west Tulsa development??  There ain't that much of it.  In about a mile or two you run into Oakhurst, Sapulpa, Jenks, etc.  Just a tiny little strip of land.

Tulsa Hills Shopping on the other hand may just pull traffic from some of those areas, so we get a little bit of sales tax that would be missed.  But most of those towns have some of what Hills has anyway.

[rdj]

BA's "corporate welfare" is more transparent.  How much is Tulsa having to spend on infrastructure improvements to get a couple of Dick's put in?

Just re-read this.  I thought this was a family friendly place to hang?   

[heironymouspasparagus]

BA has changed a lot in the last decade or so...and not all of it for the better.

[Conan71]

Just re-read this.  I thought this was a family friendly place to hang?   

Slipped that one in, didn't I? Bahahaha!

Heir.  Do you ever travel to west Tulsa?  Oakhurst is at least 5-6 miles away, and Sapulpa even further.  Jenks is a mile a way.  There's nothing close to that for Oakhurst unless you count the decayed strip center over on 49th West.