Debt Debate in Congress

[Cats Cats Cats]

How convienient?  You know there is a defecit.  You know the ceiling will have to be lifted again no matter who gets in office.  You seriously think they want to do this every month?  Sounds smart to me.  I think the smart thing to do would be to have the next debt ceiling vote when we get the new congress in.

[Teatownclown]

I swear he must read your posts here, Conan.

Too damn bad TNF has my upload file full....even when I want to downsize my photos it still will not post my great stuff....too bad for you. Ha Ha.

try this link to see what I mean.... http://www.tulsaworld.com/includes/article/relatedphotos.aspx?articleID=20110630_63_A14_tworld3752

[Cats Cats Cats]

So no, you didn't make it up, some fool at the Wall Street Journal made it up.

I like the fact that the guy had to clarify his bs assertion

CLARIFICATION: An earlier headline stated that "Obama Calls People Making $250,000 'Jet Owners.'"  While his comments referred to the Democratic effort to close a tax loophole for jet owners, known as "accelerate depreciation," the jet comment is part of the  administration's broader efforts to raise taxes on the wealthy, defined as those making $250,000 or more.

[Gaspar]

Bill Clinton to the rescue. . .he has a solution. . .spending cuts!

Why didn't anyone think of that?

[Conan71]

I swear he must read your posts here, Conan.

Too damn bad TNF has my upload file full....even when I want to downsize my photos it still will not post my great stuff....too bad for you. Ha Ha.

try this link to see what I mean.... http://www.tulsaworld.com/includes/article/relatedphotos.aspx?articleID=20110630_63_A14_tworld3752

Open an account on Photobucket or another photo hosting site, I've got the same problem.  You upload from your hard drive to the site, it will store it and generates the code you need to reference the photo.  Just cut & paste the code and you are done.  If you need help figuring it out, just drop me a PM.

[Conan71]

Bill Clinton to the rescue. . .he has a solution. . .spending cuts!

Why didn't anyone think of that?

Might be another opportunity for President Obama to abdicate his leadership role to the former President Clinton.  He's probably got a party he needs to get to with Mrs. Obama.

[guido911]

I like the fact that the guy had to clarify his bs assertion

CLARIFICATION: An earlier headline stated that "Obama Calls People Making $250,000 'Jet Owners.'"  While his comments referred to the Democratic effort to close a tax loophole for jet owners, known as "accelerate depreciation," the jet comment is part of the  administration's broader efforts to raise taxes on the wealthy, defined as those making $250,000 or more.

What is "bs" about increasing the tax rate at the same percentage on anyone making over $250K? The fact is that those jet owners will get a tax increase, and so will your run or the mill shlub who owns a small business or family farm or that shlub who just got lucky and landed a job making that magic 250 if Obama gets his way. In other news:

A new federal program is offering aid with a sweet kicker: It doesn't need to be repaid.

For the roughly four million homeowners who have fallen behind on their mortgage payments, the federal government is offering yet another remedy: free money to catch up on their loans.

The effort, called the Emergency Homeowners Loan Program, is the latest in the federal government's efforts to slow down the flood of foreclosures a necessary step to a meaningful recovery in the housing market, says a Department of Housing and Urban Development official. For people who have lost their jobs, the $1 billion program offers loans of up to $50,000 that don't actually need to be repaid, if applicants meet certain requirements.

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/113040/more-money-for-struggling-homeowners-smartmoney?mod=loans-home

More damned bailouts.

[Conan71]

What is "bs" about increasing the tax rate at the same percentage on anyone making over $250K? The fact is that those jet owners will get a tax increase, and so will your run or the mill shlub who owns a small business or family farm or that shlub who just got lucky and landed a job making that magic 250 if Obama gets his way. In other news:

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/113040/more-money-for-struggling-homeowners-smartmoney?mod=loans-home

More damned bailouts.

Kind of looks like more welfare for the banksters.  Again more temporary measures to put off the inevitable.

[Cats Cats Cats]

What is "bs" about increasing the tax rate at the same percentage on anyone making over $250K? The fact is that those jet owners will get a tax increase, and so will your run or the mill shlub who owns a small business or family farm or that shlub who just got lucky and landed a job making that magic 250 if Obama gets his way. In other news:

http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/113040/more-money-for-struggling-homeowners-smartmoney?mod=loans-home

He was specifically talking about the tax incentives on Jets.  There is a tax break on Jets to help spur the purchase due to the companies going out of business after 9/11.  Raising the taxes on 250k and above is completely different than a tax incentive on Jets.  Even people making $20,000 will no longer be able to benefit from the private jet tax incentives.  Not just those over $250,000.

[Conan71]

How convienient?  You know there is a defecit.  You know the ceiling will have to be lifted again no matter who gets in office.  You seriously think they want to do this every month?  Sounds smart to me.  I think the smart thing to do would be to have the next debt ceiling vote when we get the new congress in.

It's being done this way instead of to the end of the fiscal year or the next fiscal year so no one has to be on record as having voted for or against so close to an election.  It also would allow Congress to go flaccid again on working out spending cuts and tax increases until after the next election.  You can't seriously think things like this are not well timed to prevent political consequences can you?

[Gaspar]

Might be another opportunity for President Obama to abdicate his leadership role to the former President Clinton.  He's probably got a party he needs to get to with Mrs. Obama.

DNC is getting pissed. Calling the big guns to help out.  The last two fundraisers hosted by the president have been dismal.  Clinton will also be hitting the campaign trail now to fund the candidate.

[Conan71]

The President is refusing to meet with Repugnicans at a luncheon.  I don't see the quote where he called it political theater as I had heard from one reporter on the radio, but sounds like he's not risking any indigestion.  Gaspar, do you know what his golf calendar was like that day?

"The Senate's top Republican invited President Obama to a GOP lunch at the Capitol to discuss the ongoing dispute over the debt and related issues, but the White House on Thursday rebuffed the invitation.

A day after the president at his news conference challenged Congress and especially Republicans to move quickly on the nagging question of increasing the debt ceiling, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky), the minority leader, urged Obama to meet with Republicans to explain his position.

RELATED

Obama challenges GOP on tax breaks at press conference

Obama tries to jump-start debt talks at White House

Fresh from Obama's 'homework' rebuke, Congress considers staying put to hammer out debt deal

"That way he can hear directly from Republicans why what he's proposing won't pass," McConnell said. "And we can start talking about what's actually possible."

At his televised briefing, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Republicans just wanted to restate their maximalist position. "That's not a conversation worth having," he said, adding the administration was still open to talks about a compromise.

Carney refused to say if the president had plans to meet with Senate Democrats next week. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada) told reporters on Thursday that he had invited the president and Vice President Joe Biden to meet with Democrats and that he expected them to attend."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-mcconell-obama-debt-ceiling-20110630,0,3890839.story

[heironymouspasparagus]

Heir, I think you are referring to the tax rate on dividends which might be where you were confused which I believe is still 17%.  That's the metric commonly cited as well as the famous Warren Buffet comment about his tax rate and his secretaries.

My dividends always get taxed at regular rate.

What I am talking about is something that has been covered many times here.  I have worked through the example of how an incentive stock option (ISO) is used to lower the tax rate for the top 1% - on several occasions.  I have even given the method to guido to use - and he is sooooo greedy (gueedy?) that he wouldn't even consider paying a commission to me for turning him onto the way to save himself hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

Quick reminder;
Pick your favorite CEO (and other, lower ranking officers/executives).  Look at the annual report or the 10K.  Of that $15,000,000 plus they are paid, the salary is about $700,000.  ISO is the remaining 14 million.  Pays 34% on 700,000.  Pays 15% on remaining 14 million +.  Average tax rate under 18%.  Savings to the guy; at LEAST 3 to 4 million per year.  Extra cost to all us middle class tax payers to subsidize that; at LEAST 3 to 4 million per year.

Ring a bell??

Well, I do know for a fact that there are at least a couple people out there who do pay attention!  Maybe more should try it??  Amazingly, guido is one of them.  He said he is investigating this for his own use.  If I was making more money in my companies, I would also be using the break.  Can't wait!!

[nathanm]

Quick reminder;
Pick your favorite CEO (and other, lower ranking officers/executives).  Look at the annual report or the 10K.  Of that $15,000,000 plus they are paid, the salary is about $700,000.  ISO is the remaining 14 million.  Pays 34% on 700,000.  Pays 15% on remaining 14 million +.  Average tax rate under 18%.  Savings to the guy; at LEAST 3 to 4 million per year.  Extra cost to all us middle class tax payers to subsidize that; at LEAST 3 to 4 million per year.

As I understand it, options are regular income unless you exercise them and then hold the resulting stock for a year before selling, otherwise it's a short term capital gain which is taxed at the regular rate, not the long term capital gains tax rate.

Not that that's terribly hard to do for the upper income earners who get paid largely in options.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That's exactly right - that is exactly how they do it - hold them for one year and it becomes long term capital gain at 15%.  Who wouldn't sign on for that deal??  I want it so bad I can taste it!!!

And even the so-called "small businessmen" who make over magical 250,000 per year are entitled (maybe THAT is where the sense of entitlement comes from...) to play.  Suppose you had a company (small S corporation) that made about 500k per year.  Since IRS rules say you must pay yourself a 'reasonable' salary, you do so - you want it to be somewhere close to 100,000 depending on age - the older the higher - to maximize your retirement SS check.  And keep the IRS from digging too deeply.

The rest goes into the ISO world.  And you not only save the 14% of FICA on everything above the salary, you also get to save the extra 20% or so by missing out on regular income on the 400k.  That would be probably around 34% savings, so even with a small business, there are ways to stick it to the W-2 workers for another $140,000.  Pretty neat little scam, isn't it!!?

You do have to be more careful in how you set up ISO for S corporations, but that's just paperwork for the accountant.  That's how I am trying to save guido several hundred thousand per year.  And he is not even willing to compensate me for it.  He bragged one time about all the advisors he has to pay to manage all that money he has, but won't even pay the one person in this world who is gonna save him more than all those others combined!