Debt Debate in Congress

[Teatownclown]

Why bring in the race card? Because someone else did and you found it on the internets?

You are ruining our forum.

"OUR"...my point exactly. Ruining? Hardly. There's other's in "YOUR" forum far more devious and bad but you could never face up to that. Nobody made me do it....


I will admit that today I am an angry liberal because I don't like MY country's regression.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I like what Winston Churchill said about us; Americans can indeed "be counted on to do the right thing... after they have exhausted all other possibilities."

Maybe next time will be after the 2012 election and the reality of the tax hikes that are required to actually help solve this problem will occur.

As far as racism - yeah, that is a huge component of this discussion, even though our particular right wing doesn't seem to understand that.  I get notes from even more reactionary friends who have been slinging around the "N" word for 2 years!  They did wait a respectful few months of just the normal tirades we see here, but it eventually came out when they realized how intellectually bankrupt the Murdochian arguments really are.  So, if someone thinks it ain't racist, they just don't understand.  But hey,... delusion is what Oklahoma is all about, isn't it?

[Gaspar]

I guess I don't get it.  Where is the racism? 

I can't see a single part of this debate that has anything to do with race.

To bring it down to that level simply shows that you have nothing left to say, so you pull the race sword from its scabbard in an attempt to somehow strengthen your position. 

Stop it.  It makes you look like a fool, not just a clown, and degrades what is left of the healthy debate happening between those of us who don't need to stoop that low.

[Conan71]

"OUR"...my point exactly. Ruining? Hardly. There's other's in "YOUR" forum far more devious and bad but you could never face up to that. Nobody made me do it....


I will admit that today I am an angry liberal because I don't like MY country's regression.

Quit reading blogs by angry people and listening to angry people like Olbermann, that doesn't help.

[guido911]

John Stewart on Obama's capitulation on no new revenues.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-slaps-down-obama-for-debt-deal-youre-not-pinning-this-turd-on-us/

He also rips the Tea Party at the end. For me, the funniest moment is his joke about Boehner near 5:10.

[Teatownclown]

I guess I don't get it.  Where is the racism? 

I can't see a single part of this debate that has anything to do with race.

To bring it down to that level simply shows that you have nothing left to say, so you pull the race sword from its scabbard in an attempt to somehow strengthen your position. 

Stop it.  It makes you look like a fool, not just a clown, and degrades what is left of the healthy debate happening between those of us who don't need to stoop that low.

I will never stop posting pertinent columns to current issues in specific threads to open discussion to motives and seeking out the underlying causes. Don't take them personally and you'll be ok. Rupert Murdoch's team found the linked article printable.

[Teatownclown]

This debate has shown all that is ugly in America and is calling the functionality of our Democracy into question.
I would agree with this Kentuckian (1:35 mark)....

[Gaspar]

On the contrary.  This is not an example of a flaw in our system.  This is an example of the finest feature of our system of government.

Our founding fathers wanted to make decisions like this a fight.  They wanted the representatives of the people to be battered an bloodied by such decisions.  That's why a simple majority wouldn't do.

It's not just the decision that is important it is the changing perception of the representatives that happens as a result of the decision.  This fight and the thousands of fights that preceded it over the past 229 years, have shaped our nation and leadership.  

Without this exact process we would never get an opportunity to identify the principled from the simply political in our representatives.

If this was just a majority decision we would be a nation led by whatever party happens to be in power.

Sure, it hurts when your side loses, and the result may not be the very best outcome, but the process is not at fault.  

Had this issue been addressed when it was an issue rather than a crisis, the outcome may have been very different.

[Teatownclown]

On the contrary.  This is not an example of a flaw in our system.  This is an example of the finest feature of our system of government.

Our founding fathers wanted to make decisions like this a fight.  They wanted the representatives of the people to be battered an bloodied by such decisions.  That's why a simple majority wouldn't do.

It's not just the decision that is important it is the changing perception of the representatives that happens as a result of the decision.  This fight and the thousands of fights that preceded it over the past 229 years, have shaped our nation and leadership.  

Without this exact process we would never get an opportunity to identify the principled from the simply political in our representatives.

If this was just a majority decision we would be a nation led by whatever party happens to be in power.

Sure, it hurts when your side loses, and the result may not be the very best outcome, but the process is not at fault.  

Had this issue been addressed when it was an issue rather than a crisis, the outcome may have been very different.

Now That's funny....I did not know you had the clown in you too...

How can anyone ever say that American Democracy exists when a small band of selfish, idiotic ideologues can hold the whole country hostage to achieve their selfish aims when a huge majority of Americans do not support them? This selfishness comes from both sides of a systemic failure in our country.


What's the next "crisis" your people will conjure up to divide the nation, cloud priorities, and anger the people?

[guido911]

How can anyone ever say that American Democracy exists when a small band of selfish, idiotic ideologues can hold the whole country hostage to achieve their selfish aims when a huge majority of Americans do not support them? This selfishness comes from both sides of a systemic failure in our country.

I know. Thank goodness for the tea party that kicked those folks out of local, state, and federal government last November.

[AquaMan]

Now children, here are your words for the day: Belligerent, Indulgent, Incendiary, Egotistical, Arrogance, Pontificate, Dissonance, Bloviation, Chauvinism, Exaggeration, Misconstrue and Condescension.

Your task is to match up each word or personality trait with its author in the previous posts! You have 2 minutes which is about the same time it took to make the posts. For additional insights position yourself on the asphalt parking lot of a nearby downtown church, in sight of a bank time/temperature sign, with your laptop.

Good luck. No cheating.

[Gaspar]

Now That's funny....I did not know you had the clown in you too...

How can anyone ever say that American Democracy exists when a small band of selfish, idiotic ideologues can hold the whole country hostage to achieve their selfish aims when a huge majority of Americans do not support them? This selfishness comes from both sides of a systemic failure in our country.


What's the next "crisis" your people will conjure up to divide the nation, cloud priorities, and anger the people?

Again, this was not a crisis back in 2009, 2010.  The trajectory was set and even the president found it necessary to spend millions of dollars assembling a blue ribbon panel who's singular responsibility was to report and present a "road map" to solve the problem.

This became a crisis when the president opted to kick the can, rather than confront the very problem he himself recognized and sought solutions to.  

For most of us of the conservative persuasion, this was his own self-manufactured crisis.  Had he decided to address the problem the crisis would have been little more than a 22 minute motion and vote that no news agency would even bother to cover.

He turned it into speeches, and golf outings, and campaign stops.  

President Obama leads through crisis. From the campaign to the stimulus, to the auto bail-out, to cash for clunkers, to the debt ceiling increase, he uses crises as his only means to motivate.  He leads by push rather than pull.  If you cannot see that, then you are hopelessly blind.

[nathanm]

So Obama is the one that decided to tie the debt ceiling increase to bringing the budget closer to balanced?

[AquaMan]

Bonus words!

Naivete, Gestault, Diagnostician, Projection (psychol)

[Gaspar]

So Obama is the one that decided to tie the debt ceiling increase to bringing the budget closer to balanced?

Heck no, he would never suggest means-based spending or any spending measure that could threaten his ability to spend freely.   That's why he refused to take even one of the suggestions presented by the debt committee he assembled. That's why he didn't act on a single point from his "budget framework" speeches.  He's all campaign, and campaigns need to spend!

He wouldn't' even commit that any revenue increases agreed upon would be used to pay down the debt, because he knew they would be used for new spending.