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Keystone dam broken?

Started by custosnox, July 12, 2011, 09:02:35 PM

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swake

Quote from: Salukipoke on July 15, 2011, 11:36:38 AM
Oh, and I also knew $141M was no where near enough to pay for an arena that looked identicle to the one in Miami. 

A, so you are a refugee from the TW site, nice



=/=


carltonplace

Quote from: Salukipoke on July 15, 2011, 11:36:38 AM
Oh, and I also knew $141M was no where near enough to pay for an arena that looked identicle to the one in Miami. 

I hope there is something you like about Tulsa and perhaps you can expound on that while you are posting here. Most of us are huge fans of our town and that is what brings us together.

Hoss

Quote from: Salukipoke on July 15, 2011, 11:36:38 AM
Oh, and I also knew $141M was no where near enough to pay for an arena that looked identicle to the one in Miami. 

Identical?  Not really.  Some of the same elements?  Sure, if you're talking about the prevalent use of glass pane for large areas.

Totally different buildings.

Hoss

Quote from: carltonplace on July 15, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
I hope there is something you like about Tulsa and perhaps you can expound on that while you are posting here. Most of us are huge fans of our town and that is what brings us together.

Maybe he needs to go back to Southern Illinois.  Sheesh.

RecycleMichael

All square buildings look alike to me.
Power is nothing till you use it.

AquaMan

Quote from: Vision 2025 on July 15, 2011, 11:16:06 AM
Yes they are

Well, good luck with that one. I'm sure you're capable.
onward...through the fog

Hoss

Quote from: Salukipoke on July 15, 2011, 10:53:07 AM
I could bring up several reasons why I've grown distrustful of tulsa government and the tight knit group of individuals who run this city (non-elected individuals), but I'll just continue to point out the verbage on the ballot.  I know the money allotted wasn't anywhere near enough to construct the dams, but how many people walking off the street to vote knew or researched that before they voted?  Some prolly walked in, read the ballot, saw the verbage, saw "construct" and said "heck, ya!"

I'm not very bright and even I know the word "construct" should never have been on that ballot.  But that just goes with how things are done around here; legal or not.  And just to be open; I didn't vote for any of the props on Vision 2025, but did vote for Mayor Savages plan(s) when they would have put Tulsa out in front of OKC... now we're just chasing them.  It's too bad; the people of Tulsa are great, Tulsa's in a great location/climate, just poor leadership and no dam dams!   ;)



You voted for the same plan that included a soccer stadium?  A natatorium?  And you're complaining about V2025?  Wow.

While at the time I knew we needed a new arena, that stuff was just pie-in-the-sky.  I'm sure JeffP will disagree as far as the soccer stadium goes, but come on!  A giant swimming pool?  We didn't have the infrastructure for that.  We were trying to do too much too quickly.

Patrick

Quote from: Salukipoke on July 14, 2011, 10:12:44 AM
Good article here explaining what Swake brings up...

http://glenpoolpost.com/news/article_2f5627ad-feef-5f65-a095-e7c47035ea6d.html

My overall point was/is, we were essentially lied to during the V2025 voting.  Wonder how much of the $5.6M is left after the terrazzo flooring upgrade at the bok??   ;)

Ah, good 'ol Tulsa.


The terrazzo flooring was paid for by private donors.  It was an upgrade to what was originally proposed.

Quote
BOK Center announces 2 new sponsors
By Brian Barber Tulsa World, Okla.
Saturday, November 17 2007

Nov. 17--Cherokee Nation Enterprises and Cox Communications were revealed Friday as two new founding sponsors of Tulsa's BOK Center.

Their contributions total $4.84 million and bring the total in private money for the arena to $31.8 million.

"One of the most exciting aspects of this project has been the public-private partnership," Mayor Kathy Taylor said as the names were added to a giant sign at one corner of the construction site.

"These businesses are investing in Tulsa's future."

The Tulsa County Vision 2025 sales-tax program is providing $178 million to build the venue, which will open in September.

But the private money will allow for enhancements, including terrazzo flooring and upgrades to the lighting and landscaping, that otherwise could not be afforded.

"This facility is going to be recognized nationally as a first-class destination for high-profile events," the mayor said.

Cherokee Nation Enterprises' 10-year agreement, worth $2,256,821, includes a founders suite and being the BOK Center's exclusive casino and destination resort.

It will receive title sponsorship of an area

on the venue's main concourse that will be known as the Cherokee Casino Gaming Zone.

Hoss

Quote from: Patrick on July 15, 2011, 09:56:31 PM
The terrazzo flooring was paid for by private donors.  It was an upgrade to what was originally proposed.


Dem darn facts, always gettin' in the way.

dbacks fan

Somewhat inside story, when Pheonix was trying to lure an expansion MLB team in 1994 the county passed a 1/4 cent sales tax without a public vote. It was so contreversial that county commisioner Mary Rose Wilcox was shot by a homeless person as a result of the vote. The people of the county were against the decision, especially after being burned by Bernie Eccelstone with the US F1 Grand Prix of Phoenix in the early 90's at the cost of millions. With 20/20 hindsight the Diamondbacks are one of the best things. The Cardinals Stadium (University Of Phoenix (insert joke here) was built on a tourist tax, (hotel and rental car). Both of these as well as US Airways and Jobbing.com arenas are sponsored like race cars. Actually they all are. You have an entity that ponies up the start up, then you get a primary sponsor, and the you get associate sponsors. Most have nothing to do with the team per say, but with the venue. It doesen't matter who is driving, can you consistenly finish in the top five.

dbacks fan

One more comment off topic. They held a Formula One race in Dallas in 1984 that saw the drivers taken down by the heat and humidity of a race there in July, whats Austin like in July? As much as I love motorsport a race in July in Austin has potential disaster written all over it. I hope that it suceeds, I just have my doubts. Now back to the original topic.

dbacks fan

IIRC There has been a low water dam in Sand Springs, I remember that this was the launching point for KRMG'S Great Raft Race, and the first year of the event, the winners were dragging their rafts acoss the sand bars at the pedestrian bridge. I think that it would be great to have a series of low water dams that create a lake affect all the way to Bixby, but it should have started years ago, when Zink Lake was thought of, and should have been planned then. The potential has been there since the mid to late 70's. unfortunately we know where the direction of Tulsa was moving. Now Tulsa is trying to reverse that trend, and I hope that it is sucessful. It seems that there is life in downtown.

AquaMan

#57
Quote from: dbacks fan on July 16, 2011, 02:34:54 AM
IIRC There has been a low water dam in Sand Springs, I remember that this was the launching point for KRMG'S Great Raft Race, and the first year of the event, the winners were dragging their rafts acoss the sand bars at the pedestrian bridge. I think that it would be great to have a series of low water dams that create a lake affect all the way to Bixby, but it should have started years ago, when Zink Lake was thought of, and should have been planned then. The potential has been there since the mid to late 70's. unfortunately we know where the direction of Tulsa was moving. Now Tulsa is trying to reverse that trend, and I hope that it is sucessful. It seems that there is life in downtown.

The series of low water dams concept was pushed as far back as the 1940's but the Corps decided a string of larger dams was more to their liking. They actually had been studying the river for navigation purposes since the late 1800's. Since flood control was the main issue in the Tulsa area, once they committed to the big dam plan the smaller multiple dams plan became irrelevant.

The low water dams themselves are expensive to build, require vigilant maintenance because of the sandy river and have never seemed to work well here. We gave up on dredging which was a necessity to keep it operating correctly. Sand Springs blew up theirs in the 80's because of multiple deaths. Added to the mix was the Southward movement of the city. There was no real appreciation of the river west of downtown.

I have postulated here in the past that a simpler, more manageable plan is to use a series of natural barriers of rock jetties (I think the Corps calls them "Wing Dams") that extend partially into the river and direct flow into narrow rapids to scour a 14 mile channel between Keystone Dam and Bixby. The resulting small lakes and jetties would be overflowed during high water yet could be planned to sequentially drain by varying the lengths of the jetties. It would create numerous opportunities for recreation areas and a seamless kayak/canoe path tying river communities together. The real impediment to the system is that it takes a commitment and mental orientation that I don't think Tulsa has. We live next to a river, we are not a river community.

This latest proposal for a white water rafting area with a flume is an example of the concept. The jetty concept is also currently on display by the PSO power plant below the proposed white water park where it creates a huge wave at its opening. PSO built it I believe.
onward...through the fog

RecycleMichael

About twenty years ago my mother wrote a history book on the 50 year history of the Tulsa Corps of Engineers. It has great pictures of the Arkansas river and how Keystone Dam was built.

AquaMan... next time we see each other I will bring it to show you.
Power is nothing till you use it.

AquaMan

Quote from: RecycleMichael on July 16, 2011, 09:41:30 AM
About twenty years ago my mother wrote a history book on the 50 year history of the Tulsa Corps of Engineers. It has great pictures of the Arkansas river and how Keystone Dam was built.

AquaMan... next time we see each other I will bring it to show you.

Thanks. Hopefully that won't be too long. I'm expecting water to fill the river soon. Am working on getting my fleet river-worthy and mobile. Did your mom work for them?
onward...through the fog