Proposed re-use of Roosevelt School

[Conan71]

Conan is right. The DEQ is likely to be a free consultant helping another government deal with environmental issues more than they would a private developer.

Other part is, just how marketable is that property to other commercial interests?  I can see the ad now:

Wonderful Opportunity Directly Across The Street From The Tulsa County Jail!

Homeless shelters and bail bondsmen are within convenient walking distance!

Gallons of oil seepage right under the property!  Erect your own oil derrick!

LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!

Hey, wait!  Sounds like a perfect spot for Bell's!

[JeffM]

Archer & Elwood, across the street from David L Moss... location makes sense, I guess, it certainly wouldn't be out of place... much better than next door to the bark park on third.... somehow I'm reminded of a certain Vancouver architect a few years back who was paid $10mil to tell us that the IDL is a noose that strangles downtown Tulsa... yet from my perspective, I'm grateful to have those barriers in place, Owen Park feels kinda tucked away ... although my IDEAL location for the Juvenile Center is in "concerned citizen" John Wright's neighborhood in Broken Arrow, preferably as close to a public park or community swimming pool as "humanely" possible...  

[Truman]

Conan is right. The DEQ is likely to be a free consultant helping another government deal with environmental issues more than they would a private developer.

OK the facts, as you won't get them from today's TW.

DEQ was running tests on the property. Results at first were clean. Too clean.

Under one of the buildings's concrete slab, was found a "well" that had been capped with concrete.
DEQ put together a special testing device. Two feet down in the well there began to be high concentrations of volatile chemicals, PCB's, and chemicals that would preclude any sort of a residential type facility.
More to be determined as that was just at two feet. The plan was to go substantially deeper in running the test.
Cost of cleanup was to be paid by Storey if they followed through with the contract.

Out of pocket for Storey may have just been estimated at an unacceptable level with the 2.5 Mil sale price. Who knows? May have opened doors that a wrecking company, a successful wrecking company, would like to see remain closed.

[AquaMan]

Any indication who dumped stuff under the building and who capped the "well"?

Sounds like Storey wanted to dump the property on the taxpayer as though it was clean. Then when the truth was exposed they didn't want to take responsibility for clean up unless they could get more money. The bottom line is this: even if the property is cleaned up in conjunction with DEQ as a "free" consultant (nothing is free), the taxpayer foots the bill. Either in the form of a higher purchase price or with another government entity helping.

What ever happened to taking responsibility? Someone dumped the stuff there. Whether it was Storey during the last few decades or past residents of the property, Storey has the responsibility for clean up now. It disgusts me that it is only disclosed here on a limited forum and that suddenly Roosevelt is pursued as the answer.

The answer is for Storey to pay for their deferred disposal expenses by cleaning up their property.

[DTowner]

Federal environmental laws pin liability on any owner of the property, even if the current owner did not do the polluting.  Most recent owner usually gets stuck with the cleanup/remidiation bill unless it can find a previous owner who did the polluting and has money to pay.  Most commercial purchases are contingent on envirornmental study.  If this is the case, Storey should be stuck with cleaning up whatever mess is there no matter who made it, unless the government decides to let them off the hook.

[AquaMan]

I know they are stuck with it. But it looks like they intend to pass it on in the selling price rather than paying for their past deferral. Especially if the Roosevelt property falls through. I can foresee authorities reverting to the Storey location and paying the extra price.

Its like a homeowner who fails to re-roof his home and prices it as though he had. Yet when an offer is made contingent on the home being re-roofed, suddenly increases the price to reflect the added expense.

Even if they refuse to sell to the county, there is the nasty little matter that toxic disposal laws have probably been broken while the city/county did business with them for years under the assumption that they were properly disposing of anti-freeze, oil, battery acids etc.

[DTowner]

AquaMan - are you suggesting the County is now going to pay more $ after discovering there is a hidden toxic filled well?

If the contract price was already agreed upon, any cleanup/remediation costs should be Storey's problem.  Once the property is cleaned up, it is probably worth what the County agreed to pay.  Even if Storey backs out of the deal, assuming the contract permits it, Storey still has a problem now that a toxic filled well has been discovered on its property.  DEQ will not let them ignore it, even if they don't sell the property.

[AquaMan]

AquaMan - are you suggesting the County is now going to pay more $ after discovering there is a hidden toxic filled well?

I am hoping that a public discussion of that possibility negates its probability. The county has a long relationship with Storey and others have mentioned on here that remediation would be smoother with purchase by another governmental entity. Consider me skeptical.

If the contract price was already agreed upon, any cleanup/remediation costs should be Storey's problem.  Once the property is cleaned up, it is probably worth what the County agreed to pay.  Even if Storey backs out of the deal, assuming the contract permits it, Storey still has a problem now that a toxic filled well has been discovered on its property.  DEQ will not let them ignore it, even if they don't sell the property.

That last paragraph is comforting. That is the way it should all go down. I now adjust my suspicious countenance.

[Conan71]

OK the facts, as you won't get them from today's TW.

DEQ was running tests on the property. Results at first were clean. Too clean.

Under one of the buildings's concrete slab, was found a "well" that had been capped with concrete.
DEQ put together a special testing device. Two feet down in the well there began to be high concentrations of volatile chemicals, PCB's, and chemicals that would preclude any sort of a residential type facility.
More to be determined as that was just at two feet. The plan was to go substantially deeper in running the test.
Cost of cleanup was to be paid by Storey if they followed through with the contract.

Out of pocket for Storey may have just been estimated at an unacceptable level with the 2.5 Mil sale price. Who knows? May have opened doors that a wrecking company, a successful wrecking company, would like to see remain closed.

Care to provide a source on these facts since you've got posters running away with this now?

[Truman]

DEQ

You can buy a copy of the report in the near future.

[RecycleMichael]

DEQ

You can buy a copy of the report in the near future.

I don't know who you are, but you are saying things that don't jive. I have had some conversations about this property that are in conflict with youir statements.

Can you cite any references before you throw out any more scare stories and claim they are facts? If you have anything in writing, I would tend to believe you, but at this point you seem to be a bombthrower who is putting out unfounded lies.

Did Storey tow your car and now you want to get even? 

[TulsaRufnex]

I know they are stuck with it. But it looks like they intend to pass it on in the selling price rather than paying for their past deferral. Especially if the Roosevelt property falls through. I can foresee authorities reverting to the Storey location and paying the extra price.

The Roosevelt idea was never more than a pet project from KFAQ's people who yammered about preferring to house juvenile delinquents in a neighborhood school to save money.... I think Fred Perry was just playing nice....

Notes on the juvenile center
by Commissioner Fred Perry
http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=5368

I have gotten it down from the $77 million price tag that was originally projected by the architects. I continue to try to reduce it even more. We are also looking, and have looked long and hard, at alternatives to building the center from scratch.
But it is not as easy as one would think. Juvenile Justice Centers are part detention center (in this case around 65 beds), part courthouse (for juveniles only) and part office space. State and federal regulations regarding detention facilities for juveniles preclude the detention part of the facilities being built from existing structures except for possible similar facilities.
We looked hard at the schools that TPS have put up for sale. The major problem with them, including Roosevelt Elementary which Dan mentioned in his piece, is that they are in residential neighborhoods.
Zoning would have to be changed "big time" because you have to jump several levels of zoning to get such a facility approved by the Board of Adjustment and the City Council.
They are in the same class as jails and some of the kids are violent. Citizens living in a residential area rise up in strong protest when authorities start considering putting such a facility in their back yards. It seems to be an impossible task.
Because of the regulations, the detention center portion would have to be built from scratch at a cost of about $15 million. We have considered the Roosevelt Elementary School. I toured the building in July. The building is 95 years old which makes it even less of a possibility to remodel for the detention portion of the facility. It could be remodeled for the courtrooms and offices but that would not come cheap and the "skin" and structural aspects would still be 95 years old.
If Dan had driven by Roosevelt School he would have seen that it is not downtown, as he stated. It is across multiple freeways from downtown, next to Owen Park and in the Owen Park residential subdivision and a block from the Tulsa Country Club southern boundary. Owen Park has a very strong home owners association that has made it known they are strongly opposed to the center being located anywhere nearby, much less right in the subdivision. They have successfully blocked much less benign facilities such as a proposed juvenile half-way house blocks away from the subdivision.

Funny how the talk radio drivel-masters criticize the county but NEVER spoke with residents until last week...

Plan for county juvenile justice center on hold
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110916_16_A8_CUTLIN276239

Meanwhile, earlier this week, neighborhood residents packed Owen Park Baptist Church to discuss the possibility of housing the juvenile court at the recently closed Roosevelt Elementary School, 1202 W. Easton St.

The meeting was arranged by John Wright, a Tulsa County Assessor's Office employee and former state lawmaker, and state Rep. David Brumbaugh, R-Broken Arrow. Wright, who represented District 76, left office because of term limits. Brumbaugh succeeded him in 2010.

Brumbaugh said Thursday that his group is looking to find a site that could be reconfigured for less than it would cost to build a new juvenile justice center.

"We are not married to Roosevelt or any other type of facility," he said. "We are just trying to find a good option for the taxpayers."

David Phillips, a neighborhood resident who attended the meeting, said the "general reaction was pretty vocally negative to doing anything like that."

Perry said he supports Brumbaugh's efforts to provide vocational training for young people in the juvenile justice system but said the Roosevelt site is not appropriate.

He said county engineers have advised against the site and that he believes that required zoning changes would not be approved because of neighborhood opposition.

"pretty vocally negative" = unanimous  

[AquaMan]

I will admit, Storey once towed my car after an accident, when I was in high school. Somehow in a locked facility in north Tulsa at the time, all my 8 track tapes and tape player got stolen! Beach Boys Animal Sounds album was pretty groovy stuff. They shrugged their shoulders. I'm still pissed.

Oh, yeah, I paid one a twenty back during the disco days to not tow my car from behind Boston Avenue Market and he gladly accepted it. So, I guess we're even.

[Truman]

I don't know who you are, but you are saying things that don't jive. I have had some conversations about this property that are in conflict with youir statements.

Can you cite any references before you throw out any more scare stories and claim they are facts? If you have anything in writing, I would tend to believe you, but at this point you seem to be a bombthrower who is putting out unfounded lies.

Did Storey tow your car and now you want to get even? 

"bombthrower"  Don't remember ever being called that.


When Tulsa Now, was in it's infancy, I knew a fellow that was set on having employees on as many Boards, Agencies, etc. as contacts. Seems he did not trust the info he was given through the usual sources.
Possibly all that has changed. One can fold their hands and listen to the media, read the paper, and await the Bureaucratic statement released by the "parties involved".

In the above case, I thought, this organization deserved to know exactly what facts Fred Perry, and Karen Keith, etc. had been given the day before the Tulsa World story.

If the readers on this forum are content with "The truth" as the officials want them to have it; you will not have me giving life to any further outlandish stories.

Before I go, you wanted something in print. Here you go Sir.


http://www.mediafire.com/?jybq657lvaz11

 

[RecycleMichael]

Thank you for making to easy to look at the files.

It shows levels of contamination consistent with an indoor facility storing used cars for twenty years. It also suggests reasonable measures taken during construction to remediate the problems.

I don't know why you thought this was some Chicken Little screaming "the sky is falling" report. Yes, old cars can leak motor oil if parked for decades. Yes, you are probably going to do some cleanup of the site. Yes, I am sure that work is anticipated before they build on the land.