Unemployment is the Best Way to Create Jobs

[JeffM]

Tell me you don't still believe this fairy tale that Obamacare, as passed, will possibly save the government any money whatsoever.  Please demonstrate to all of us the chapter and verse which clearly spells this out.  You simply cannot increase the amount of healthcare coverage available in the country and bring on a previously unrealized risk group without necessarily raising the costs to government.  It takes piles of accounting shenanigans to show anything remotely close to savings.

Obamacare is and will prove to be such a disincentive to new hires that I predict overall payroll tax revenue and individual income tax receipts to the treasury will drop.

Just wait...

And no, that's not gloating.  This whole social experimentation issue that President Obama has is incredibly destructive, but he doesn't give a smile because he's well-employed and his well-being and that of his family is assured for life.  But hey, we've got a great celebrity for President.  It's obvious he understands even less than President Carter did about economics.  

More shameless partisan hack bull mularky from Conan the Libertarian... go figure.   You falsely characterized this president as an empty suit from the very beginning... it's your meme... these heartfelt feelings seem to bestow upon you the psychic ability to read his mind and know his motivations and thoughts.... it's obvious your political chattering class mindset has pompously convinced itself that we have a president who knows nothing about economics or the constitution... frankly, Conan, it is you who knows nothing about what draconian "supply side" economics has done to citizens in this country you don't give a smile about... let me know the last time you last took a low paying job to work/organize with Catholic parishes on the southside of Chicago... http://www.tampabay.com/news/article871662.ece  

If you don't understand the concept of health care reform, it was PRIMARILY to enable tens of millions of uninsured Americans the ability to rise from the ranks of the uninsured, not to cut the deficit.  I will be happy to see the "pre-existing condition" sentenced to the dustbin of history, where it belongs... Am I unhappy that Obamacare turned out to be compromised to the point where it morphed into something much closer to Hillarycare and Romneycare than anything Obama said as a candidate?  Yep, I was for voluntary compliance.... but I guess when Republicans like Mitt Romney support an individual mandate, it's called "personal responsibility," but when a Democrat does it... whoa Nellie!.... that's "social experimentation."  

[Conan71]

Jeez Jeff, bloviate much?

[Gaspar]

[Gaspar]

Two unions are on strike against Verizon Communications in protest of proposed company policies that the unions themselves helped bring about. The new Obamacare law, which both unions supported, dramatically hikes the cost of Verizon's employee health care plan. Efforts to pass some of that cost on to employees have sparked outrage.

Verizon's health care plan is what President Obama commonly referred to as a "Cadillac plan" – expensive and luxurious – during his push to get health care legislation through Congress. The new law will levy a 40 percent tax on all health care plans with individual coverage worth more than $10,200 and family coverage worth more than $24,000.

Though the tax will not go into effect until 2018, "Verizon is required to account for this cost now," according to company literature distributed to employees. "Accordingly, we will need to modify plan designs to avoid the impact of this tax."

Verizon says it current pays $4 billion annually to cover nearly 900,000 employees' health care. Its hundreds of thousands of unionized employees, though, pay nothing towards their health care premiums. The company estimates the "Cadillac tax" will add about $200 million to those annual costs. "The unions and our employees must work with the company to find ways to address these economic realities," Verizon insists.

But far from working with the company, 45,000 Verizon employees from the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and the Communications Workers of America went on strike on August 7 in protest of proposed changes to their health care benefits. The CWA called those changes "outrageous." The IBEW called them "retrogressive."

But both the IBEW and the CWA, like the vast majority of Big Labor, supported President Obama's push for health care "reform." The two unions did their part to bring about a law that increased the health care costs of one of their members' largest employers, and are now furious that they're being asked to shoulder some of that burden.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/19/in-verizon-strike-unions-protest-obamacare-law-they-helped-pass/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoundryConservativePolicyNews+%28The+Foundry%3A+Conservative+Policy+News.%29

If you remember, Verizon warned that the plan would not and could not save money for either the company or the workers.  They pleaded with the President.  Now, it's margin call and time to reap.

[JeffM]

Typical anti-union bs from Gas.... my grandfather was on the picket line for those "cadillac health benefits" back in the 80s and I can tell you as his primary caregiver 20 years later that those benefits made things so much less tense for the family and for me in particular.... there was a time about 30 years ago, when I thought organized labor was too powerful... but when we got President Clinton rather than President Gephardt, those views changed.... no workers in the wireless industry would dare try to unionize... the cards are stacked against them.

What will happen to me twenty years from now?.... guess Paul Ryan will give me a Ration Card.... er, uh.... voucher.
Then, rather than willing my possessions and property to family and friends, I will be forced sell all to a wealthy "job creator" to pay end of life medical bills.  

Go figure.

[Conan71]

Gaspar, 900,000 employees?  I think there's an extra goose egg on the end there.

[Gaspar]

I said nothing anti-union above.  The article excerpt posted was about the unions protesting against the very Change they helped to adopt.

I never stood on a picket line for benefits.  I did jump jobs a few times because of better benefits/salary, but I wouldn't know what it's like to demand a wage or a salary from an employer.  I ask for a wage/salary, and then I ask for raises based on my perceived performance.  I am happy if they are granted, and sometimes when they are not, I seek a different job.

I am happy that my company is willing to pay for part of my health care.  They do not have to, but, in order to be  competitive and to give employees group healthcare purchasing power, they do.

Obamacare will make my healthcare more expensive.  We are estimating about 12%. It will also make healthcare more expensive for these union workers.  That is why they are protesting.

I understand that you are angry, and feel that my post is somehow anti-union.  It is not.  Granted, I do not favor the union concept because it builds dependency, and ransoms labor.

Had your father worked for the union now, and found that his healthcare costs were slated to rise based on legislation that his union spent his money to advocate, would he not be upset?

[Gaspar]

Gaspar, 900,000 employees?  I think there's an extra goose egg on the end there.

Yeah, there is!! 
I emailed the reporter.

[Conan71]

I said nothing anti-union above.  The article excerpt posted was about the unions protesting against the very Change they helped to adopt.

I never stood on a picket line for benefits.  I did jump jobs a few times because of better benefits/salary, but I wouldn't know what it's like to demand a wage or a salary from an employer.  I ask for a wage/salary, and then I ask for raises based on my perceived performance.  I am happy if they are granted, and sometimes when they are not, I seed a different job.

I am happy that my company is willing to pay for part of my health care.  They do not have to, but, in order to be  competitive and to give employees group healthcare purchasing power, they do.

Obamacare will make my healthcare more expensive.  We are estimating about 12%. It will also make healthcare more expensive for these union workers.  That is why they are protesting.

I understand that you are angry, and feel that my post is somehow anti-union.  It is not.  Granted, I do not favor the union concept because it builds dependency, and ransoms labor.

Had your father worked for the union now, and found that his healthcare costs were slated to rise based on legislation that his union spent his money to advocate, would he not be upset?

Union members don't seem to understand that money isn't manna from Heaven.  I bet they will even be scratching their collective-bargaining heads when the rates skyrocket on their Verizon service to cover the new costs of their healthcare.

[Gaspar]

. . .and taxes.  We can't seem to learn the lesson that corporations do not pay taxes, consumers do.

If I am a company and my business plan calls for a 12% net margin, I am going to make that, no matter how you tax me.  I will simply raise the cost or lower the quality of my product to account for any increase you impose.  I don't have to worry about being competitive, because I know that my competitors will do the same.

I now surrender that this cannot be taught.  For some people, basic business concepts are so alien that attempting to explain them is like trying to teach a dog to tie shoelaces.

[Conan71]

. . .and taxes.  We can't seem to learn the lesson that corporations do not pay taxes, consumers do.

If I am a company and my business plan calls for a 12% net margin, I am going to make that, no matter how you tax me.  I will simply raise the cost or lower the quality of my product to account for any increase you impose.  I don't have to worry about being competitive, because I know that my competitors will do the same.

I now surrender that this cannot be taught.  For some people, basic business concepts are so alien that attempting to explain them is like trying to teach a dog to tie shoelaces.

Well that's just whack tea baggin' crap you are spewing there, Gaspar.  Absolutely no basis in reality for consumers paying all taxes.

[Gaspar]

Well that's just whack tea baggin' crap you are spewing there, Gaspar.  Absolutely no basis in reality for consumers paying all taxes.

Tie your shoes!

[Gaspar]

Gaspar, 900,000 employees?  I think there's an extra goose egg on the end there.

Actually that is correct.  The author tells me that this number is the total inclusive of employees and their family members.  As part of Verizon's evil corporate policy they cover immediate family members under their benefits package.

[Townsend]

Actually that is correct.  The author tells me that this number is the total inclusive of employees and their family members.  As part of Verizon's evil corporate policy they cover immediate family members under their benefits package.

So is Verizon the good guys?

[Gaspar]

So is Verizon the good guys?

I guess that would depend on your world view.  

If you admire companies that provide employment, and good benefits to about 90K people, than yes.

If you view corporations as institutions who's only goal is to take advantage of workers and produce profits for fat old men, than they are not.

I suppose it's kind of a subjective interpretation.