Obama's Foreign Policy

[Townsend]

What would be your idea of a modern Islamic society?

Start at home.

http://www.istulsa.org/

[Gaspar]

Start at home.

http://www.istulsa.org/

If you would read my posts, we are not discussing Islam as a religion, we are disusing it as a form of government.  Our primary disconnect from the Arab world is Western society v.s. Islamic society.

Any religion that operates within the framework of a free society is not at issue here.

[Townsend]

If you would read my posts, we are not discussing Islam as a religion, we are disusing it as a form of government.  Our primary disconnect from the Arab world is Western society v.s. Islamic society.

Any religion that operates within the framework of a free society is not at issue here.

I disagree.

It is a religion, not a form of government.  The government would be called a theocracy.  You need to read your own posts.

The converation has become about your tendency to put everyone into a group.

[Gaspar]

I disagree.

It is a religion, not a form of government.  The government would be called a theocracy.  You need to read your own posts.

That is correct, most of the Islamic states are indeed Theocracies.  Some have an elected figure head, but the law is the law of Islam outlined in the Qur'an. 

[Townsend]

That is correct, most of the Islamic states are indeed Theocracies.  Some have an elected figure head, but the law is the law of Islam outlined in the Qur'an. 

Circles.

[Hoss]

That is correct, most of the Islamic states are indeed Theocracies.  Some have an elected figure head, but the law is the law of Islam outlined in the Qur'an. 

But not all of them are.  You're spinning.

I'll say it again.  Most Christians I know generalize the entire Muslim faith as the less than one percent of the crazy fundies that like strapping bombs to their waists and plotting to blow up stuff that's even remotely associated to the Western way of life.  Most of them wouldn't socialize with a Muslim family if they had a pistol to their temples.

[Gaspar]

But not all of them are. 

True, some are set up as republics, but for the most part there is a ruling class of religious leaders, and the laws are not based on what would be considered basic human rights.  They are based on Islamic doctrine.

[Townsend]

True, some are set up as republics, but for the most part there is a ruling class of religious leaders, and the laws are not based on what would be considered basic human rights.  They are based on Islamic doctrine.

OK, if we're going this route again...do you think about the strength of the faith based lobbyists in this country?  Are you under the impression that laws for the USA are not formed by religious doctrine?

[Conan71]

Our way of life is perceived as a threat to many in this country. Extremely extremist extremists are extremely extremist. Sometimes extremism is based on religion. Sometimes it's based on a perceived threat to one's rights. Sometimes it's based on nothing but teh crazy.

FIFY

[Gaspar]

OK, if we're going this route again...do you think about the strength of the faith based lobbyists in this country?  Are you under the impression that laws for the USA are not formed by religious doctrine?

That's a great question!  I do believe that laws are influenced by religions of all types.  I also believe they are influenced by experiences, corporate affiliations, emotion, gender, race, sexual preference, disability, and sometimes tha crazy.

They must stand the constitutional test before they are law (and sometimes even after).  The guiding principals that make us what we are, also prevent us from being anything less.

But there I go again, celebrating American exceptionalism.  If there's one thing I've learned, the best way to piss off a liberal is to tout the merits of the constitution.

[Hoss]

That's a great question!  I do believe that laws are influenced by religions of all types.  I also believe they are influenced by experiences, corporate affiliations, emotion, gender, race, sexual preference, disability, and sometimes tha crazy.

They must stand the constitutional test before they are law (and sometimes even after).  The guiding principals that make us what we are, also prevent us from being anything less.

But there I go again, celebrating American exceptionalismisolationalism.  If there's one thing I've learned, the best way to piss off a liberal is to tout the merits of the constitution.

FIFY

[Townsend]

That's a great question!  I do believe that laws are influenced by religions of all types.  I also believe they are influenced by experiences, corporate affiliations, emotion, gender, race, sexual preference, disability, and sometimes tha crazy.

They must stand the constitutional test before they are law (and sometimes even after).  The guiding principals that make us what we are, also prevent us from being anything less.

But there I go again, celebrating American exceptionalism.  If there's one thing I've learned, the best way to piss off a liberal is to tout the merits of the constitution.

You lose yourself in these things don't you?  The "constitutional test" as you put it is a matter of opinion (Supreme Court makes their learned opinion if it gets that far for example).

Anyway, you should probably try to stop grouping all people of one faith together.  Most faiths don't even lump themselves together.

[Gaspar]

So. . .to put this discussion to bed, the draft of Libya's new constitution was just released, and it is indeed to be a legislation based on Islamic Sharia as provided in article 1.

You may now read it here http://www.scribd.com/doc/62823350/Libya-Draft-Constitutional-Charter-for-the-Transitional-Stage

This is the basis for the transitional government.  It is basic and without much detail because Sharia provides most of the necessary legislative detail. 

Since 1960 women have had the right to vote in Libya. Under this form of government, that is now over.

[Townsend]

So. . .to put this discussion to bed, the draft of Libya's new constitution was just released, and it is indeed to be a legislation based on Islamic Sharia as provided in article 1.

You may now read it here http://www.scribd.com/doc/62823350/Libya-Draft-Constitutional-Charter-for-the-Transitional-Stage

This is the basis for the transitional government.  It is basic and without much detail because Sharia provides most of the necessary legislative detail. 

Since 1960 women have had the right to vote in Libya. Under this form of government, that is now over.

So you're blaming their entire population for anything you feel is wrong with this?  Are you blaming more than just that country?  Are you blaming all of Islam?  How about the Islamic Society of Tulsa?

If this is actually what passes and becomes their government, are you going to blame the women who can't vote?

What is your point?

[Gaspar]

So you're blaming their entire population for anything you feel is wrong with this?  Are you blaming more than just that country?  Are you blaming all of Islam?  How about the Islamic Society of Tulsa?

If this is actually what passes and becomes their government, are you going to blame the women who can't vote?

What is your point?

Not blaming anyone.  The discussion was originally based on if we can ever find peace between Western society and the Arab world. 

Then you jumped in like a good liberal and started shouting "intolerance" and then went round and round trying to get you to establish where the intolerance lies.

I anticipated that eventually Libya would turn to Hamas or The Brotherhood and become a more fundamental Islamic state, I just didn't expect it so fast!

Go have a beer or something.